Dev Updates | Mikhail, Anthony Vijay, Rion, Matt

Episode Description

Dash Incubator developers demo AutoShow's AI content app, Bitcoin backport progress, a new lightweight platform SDK, and discuss treasury voting scenarios.

Episode Summary

This episode of Incubator Weekly brings together four developers—Rion, Anthony, Vijay, and Mikhail—to showcase their current work and proposals on the Dash network. Anthony demonstrates AutoShow, a content repurposing application that transcribes video and audio files and processes them through various LLMs to generate summaries, chapters, and creative content, with Dash payment integration running on testnet and nearly ready for production. Vijay walks through nine merged pull requests focused on backporting Bitcoin improvements to Dash, covering bug fixes, thread safety, integer overflow protection, and code maintainability, while appealing to the community for continued support of this essential maintenance work. Mikhail presents the most technically ambitious update: a rewritten, lightweight Dash Platform SDK that reduces the WASM layer from roughly 10 megabytes to under 3, works across browser, Node.js, and React Native environments, and pairs with a browser extension prototype that functions like MetaMask for signing platform transactions. Rion then outlines Matt Peterson's parallel work toward a pure JavaScript SDK generated from Rust source code, aiming for even smaller bundle sizes and full type safety. The episode closes with Rion walking through treasury voting scenarios, arguing that SDK development should take priority over a proposed third-party marketing initiative until better developer tooling is in place.

Chapters

00:00:00 - Introduction and Proposal Overview

Rion opens the show by welcoming Anthony, Vijay, and Mikhail, noting this is one of the most developer-packed episodes in recent memory. He briefly mentions an upcoming Twitter Space hosted by Joel that combines several digital cash communities, with this week's topic being stablecoins. Rion sets expectations for a 50-minute to one-hour runtime and outlines the agenda.

Each of the guests has an active proposal on the Dash network, and the plan is to have each developer present their work in sequence before Rion shares closing thoughts on treasury voting dynamics. He notes the tight monetary situation in the Dash community and frames the episode as both a technical showcase and an opportunity for masternode owners to understand what each proposal delivers.

00:03:14 - Anthony's AutoShow Demo and Dash Integration

Anthony presents AutoShow, a content repurposing application that takes video or audio input, transcribes it using services like Deepgram, Assembly, or Whisper via Groq, and then feeds the transcript through various LLMs to generate summaries, chapter titles, key takeaways, and even creative outputs like songs. He walks through the full workflow live, showing the credit system, model selection with pricing tiers, and the JSON output that gets written to the database.

The Dash payment integration is running on testnet and is described as roughly 99% complete, needing only a switch to production. Anthony explains that the app is designed to be accessible to non-technical users through a simple drag-and-drop interface, removing the need to understand prompt engineering or model selection. Rion commends the progress and notes Anthony's deep familiarity with the Dash JavaScript SDK, which made the integration relatively straightforward for him compared to a developer starting from scratch.

00:11:19 - Vijay's Bitcoin Backport Pull Requests

Vijay presents his work on backporting Bitcoin improvements to the Dash codebase, a process he has been contributing to since 2021. He walks through nine merged pull requests covering wallet test corrections, redundant logic removal, integer overflow fixes, thread safety improvements, deadlock prevention, and dependency modernization. He highlights the signed integer overflow fix as particularly important for security and correctness.

Rion provides context that Vijay received only one month of funding from his six-month proposal and has been working for several months without pay. He acknowledges that backporting is essential maintenance work for any Bitcoin fork and commits to compensating Vijay for at least one month from his own proposal funds if Vijay's proposal doesn't pass. The discussion touches on the tension between network priorities and the undeniable importance of keeping Dash's codebase in sync with upstream Bitcoin improvements.

00:22:08 - Mikhail's Lightweight Dash Platform SDK

Mikhail introduces a rewritten WASM layer for the Dash Platform Protocol that reduces bundle size from roughly 10-12 megabytes down to 2-3 megabytes while adding modular tree-shaking so developers can strip unused features. He explains that the existing DCG WASM DPP package breaks in production browser bundles when code is minified, because the bindings rely on specific class names that get mangled during minification. This distinction clarifies why Anthony's server-side Node.js usage worked fine while browser-based single-page applications failed.

Built on top of this new WASM layer, Mikhail has created a lightweight Dash Platform SDK that works across browser, Node.js, and React Native environments without requiring polyfills or special configuration. It supports querying data contracts, documents, and identity information directly from DAPI endpoints, and he demonstrates it loading directly into a web page's window object—something the existing JS SDK cannot do. The SDK deliberately omits wallet functionality, requiring only identity private keys rather than seed phrases.

00:37:26 - Browser Extension and Transaction Signing

Mikhail demos a proof-of-concept browser extension modeled after MetaMask that stores identity private keys and provides a transaction approval dialog for decentralized applications. He shows the flow of importing a private key exported from the Dash Evo Tool, viewing the identity balance, and then signing and broadcasting a platform transaction from a sample web application—all on testnet. The extension injects the SDK into the browser's window object so any dApp can access it.

Discussion turns to identity registration, which currently requires an asset lock transaction from the core chain. Mikhail presents mockups for a centralized gateway that would handle asset lock creation without exposing identity private keys, allowing users to pay via QR code. Rion and Anthony weigh in on the tradeoffs between storing keys in extensions versus mobile wallets, with Mikhail noting his long-term vision involves delegating key storage to mobile applications communicating with the extension, similar to WalletConnect's model.

00:54:51 - Matt's Pure JavaScript SDK Vision

Rion shares Matt Peterson's progress on an alternative SDK approach that aims to auto-generate a fully type-safe JavaScript library directly from the Rust Dash Platform Protocol source code, eliminating WASM entirely. He shows Matt's branch comparing against the base Dash Hive platform repository, noting that Matt is working toward demoing the three core operations—identity creation, data contract creation, and document submission—but hasn't reached that milestone yet due to illness and competing priorities.

Rion articulates his vision for an SDK measured in kilobytes rather than megabytes and milliseconds rather than seconds, with complete IDE autocomplete support and no black-box WASM debugging issues. Mikhail agrees this is the right long-term direction and confirms his SDK architecture is designed to swap out the WASM serialization layer for a pure JS alternative once it's ready, allowing both efforts to converge rather than compete.

01:05:44 - Treasury Voting Scenarios and Closing Thoughts

Rion pulls up a spreadsheet showing the current treasury is oversubscribed by approximately 1,500 Dash, meaning not all proposals can pass. He walks through three funding scenarios, each assuming DCG's proposals will be approved, and explores different combinations of development versus marketing proposals that could fit within the budget. His preferred scenario funds all SDK-related work while postponing a third-party marketing initiative called Market Across until developer tooling is more mature.

He argues that grassroots marketing through community Twitter Spaces and real application demos is more effective at this stage than paying an outside PR firm, especially given past experiences where contracted marketing efforts failed to move Dash's price. Anthony, Vijay, and Mikhail share brief closing remarks, with Rion reiterating his commitment to compensating Vijay from incubator funds if needed. The episode wraps with Rion heading to the scheduled Twitter Space on stablecoins.

Transcript

[00:00:00.05] - Rion Gull Foreign welcome everybody to today's episode of Incubator Weekly. This is probably the, the most packed show that we've had in a little while. I've got today with me Anthony Cryptotura, AKA Vijay and Mikhail. How's it going guys?

[00:00:21.25] - Anthony Campolo The dev extravaganza, right?

[00:00:25.08] - Rion Gull Yeah. All, all developers here. So today we, we have a lot to talk about. We'll jump right in. I will give my normal little preamble. Here we are. I'm going to try to keep this between 50 minutes and an hour. I don't think we're going to get any less than 50 minutes. But we do have an important Twitter space that I'm planning to join either as just a listener or hopefully a speaker. But I, I kind of, I haven't had an invite to be a speaker but I would be.

[00:00:57.26] - Anthony Campolo Why is it so important what's happening?

[00:01:00.04] - Rion Gull Well, it's just it, it's important to me. It's not going to be important to everybody but it's, it's just a weekly thing that Joel has started that combines a lot of different communities, the litecoin community and several other communities like digital cash focused coins and we talk about important topics. So last week was a really good show. We had like, like a heavy lineup of speakers. Joelle put together really interesting discussion. We had I think 20,000 people that came to, to view the, the space and, and this week the topic is stable coins. And so you know that, that does kind of affect development as well. So it's not just, just marketing and discussion. So I want to join that conversation. We might, I might be a little bit to late to that but yeah, so either way we'll, we'll, we'll all say what we want to say on this show. Each of us have proposals on the network right now and each of us have been doing work in the past to. Yeah. Either from past proposals or from hopeful coming up proposals to pass. So I'm going to pass it over to. We're going to start with Anthony.

[00:02:18.29] - Rion Gull You're going to talk about what you've been up to, what your proposal is about. Then we'll go with you Vijay, and then we'll go with you Mikhail. Talk about your proposals, particularly the SDK work is what I would like to discuss with you. And then I'll have some closing thoughts about how different scenarios about voting and whatnot that I foresee. Okay. So Anthony wanna going, Oops, that's my screen share. That's what I'm going to be talking about. So let's See where yours is, Anthony. Here we go.

[00:03:00.13] - Anthony Campolo Let me know what's up.

[00:03:03.17] - Rion Gull Okay, I guess I gotta remove mine. That's interesting. There we go. Is this you? Yeah, this is you.

[00:03:13.19] - Vijay Okay.

[00:03:13.28] - Anthony Campolo Yeah, cool. Sweet. So this is my proposal. I'm building an app called AutoShow. It came very close to passing last month. Votes are a bit down since then, but I'm still kind of on the the precipice, so would be really nice if it were to pass. But I understand that we're kind of in a tight monetary situation right now in the Dash community. But yeah, I'm going to show off just a little bit of what I got going. I'm going to kick this off while I explain because this first step takes a while. AutoShow is a content repurposing app that lets you take video and audio files and transcribe them and then use cutting edge LLM AI technology to do things like create chat, chapter titles, summaries, blog posts, you can even write songs. The plan was to kind of use Dash as the payments and authentication layer and the integration is like 99% done. Right now it's running on Testnet. So what you're seeing here is kind of using like, you know, Play Dash money, but it's, it's everything that needs to be there to actually like ship this to prod is basically there.

[00:04:37.09] - Anthony Campolo So because this is on testnet, this first step takes a long time. But basically right now what it's doing is it's going to let you know how many credits you have in your wallet, which is just like a unit of measurement for the app. Because there's two steps with the app that requires credits. There's picking your transcription service and then there's picking your LLM service. Because if you're someone who is into the whole, you know, AI thing right now, maybe you're using ChatGPT, maybe you're using Claude, maybe you're using Gemini. This is a multi model app, so it lets you do a little bit of everything. So you see here right now, it kind of tells you what your balance is and duffs, which is always confusing to me because there are all sorts of calculations that go into figuring out what a duf or a satoshi or a dash is and then.

[00:05:34.02] - Rion Gull Or credit.

[00:05:35.09] - Anthony Campolo Yeah, or credit. Yeah. So the term credit in this app is not related to a credit in Dash app, which is another thing that's kind of a little confusing, but we can blaze all past that. So right now, you know, this is kind of how many credits we've got AutoShow credits. Yeah, AutoShow credits, yeah. And then you can give a file on your computer or a YouTube URL. Once you do that, it gives you your different transcription options. The main ones are Deepgram assembly and then whisper through Groq. Now, right now, because it's still on Testnet, there's just an extra step where you give your API key, but this set will not exist once you're actually using the, the full on dash part. So then you get your, your transcript right here and you select your prompts. So this is what you can generate with your LLMs. So you can create, you know, titles. If it's like just a raw kind of, you know, video you created, you don't have like a title for it yet. You can have different length sections, summaries, different length chapters, things like key takeaways. You could even do like questions if you want to create educational material based on it.

[00:06:54.29] - Anthony Campolo So we'll just do a summary and a country song.

[00:06:58.22] - Rion Gull And just, just, just in case people missed it, you, you uploaded a video. So it, it's, it's process. It processed that video or it is processing that video and then spitting out through the AI these different things that you're asking it to spit out.

[00:07:14.21] - Anthony Campolo Yeah, exactly. It showed the transcript, which I went to the next step. So you don't see the transcript anymore. But the transcript was based on the video I gave it, which is just like a couple minute podcast that I had recorded from FSjam. Then it gives you all of your different AI options. I'm going to use Deep SEQ just because it's the cheapest. So it's good for demos then because I selected summary and a country song. What it does is it then takes the transcript and it takes custom written prompts that I've written that go along with the prompts that we selected earlier. And then it feeds both of those to the LLM and then gives you back. And if you see here, you know, we have different. It tells you the exact amount of credits you need for each of them. So if you're using a more expensive model like ChatGPT 4.5 is 300 credits, but if you're using O1 mini, it's only 10 credits. And then this is like just a kind of JSON output of what's being written to your database. But really what we want to see is this. So we got our summary discussion between hosts about JavaScript and FSJAM frameworks, Reflections on 2020.

[00:08:36.15] - Anthony Campolo And then there is your song. So yeah, so pretty, pretty simple app. You know, the idea when I built this is I really wanted it to be friendly to non technical people. This is originally like a CLI that I had created, but I wanted just a very simple drag and drop, click kind of thing so anyone can use this regardless of technical ability. And they kind of get all of the benefits of modern LLMs. Even if they don't know what are the best models or how to write a prompt, they just have to drop their video in, click what they want, and then they get it back. The only thing that really needs to be changed here for actually production is have the Be it on Prod instead of testnet, and then when you do the final step, it will subtract those credits from your account and then send it to the AutoShow Dash account. So like I said, it's like 99% complete in terms of the integration. Just a couple more lines of code that would need to be changed to make it actually ready to send to Prod. So yeah, that's the whole demo.

[00:09:46.12] - Anthony Campolo Pretty, pretty simple.

[00:09:48.26] - Rion Gull That's awesome. You've come a long way, obviously on this since the last time that we discussed it. You've got a UI now, and I didn't really expect the Dash integration to be as far as it already is. So, I mean, that just kind of shows how committed you are to making that work and putting in the time and work even before you're funded. So that's.

[00:10:16.23] - Anthony Campolo Yeah. And I know how the Dash SDK works. I did a whole bunch of tutorials with it already. So it was pretty simple, actually integration for me. Someone who was coming in totally cold would have to actually go through the docs and learn all the terminology and figure out how the SDK works. But I was pretty much ready to hit the ground running when I wrote the proposal, so I wanted to pretty much get it as close to the finish line as possible.

[00:10:40.27] - Rion Gull Yeah. The key thing there being that you've had a lot of experience with the SDK and so you kind of know how it works.

[00:10:50.12] - Anthony Campolo I've always said it's a little slow, but aside from that, I actually think it's a pretty, pretty good SDK.

[00:10:58.03] - Rion Gull All right, so, Vijay, unless anybody has any questions, it looks like we got a couple comments here from Al. How's it going? I haven't read this yet, so hopefully.

[00:11:09.15] - Anthony Campolo So this was using the SDK and it is running on the web. So what you saw is the SDK on the web, so the JavaScript SDK. So yeah.

[00:11:18.18] - Vijay Yep.

[00:11:19.21] - Rion Gull Okay. And there will be plenty more talk about the SDK stuff later after after Vijay so do you have a screen share for us VJ that you wanted to present?

[00:11:33.02] - Vijay Yeah. Yeah yeah.

[00:11:35.17] - Rion Gull Okay I don't see it. Does anybody else okay.

[00:11:51.24] - Rion Gull Yeah yeah we can see it now. And I'll just as a quick preamble you've been working hard on bitcoin backports for you've had a six. You had a six month proposal and yes. Yeah yeah one or two of those proposals passed but the no only one one passed and but you've been working for several months without any funding for that. So that's the the context behind this in case you were planning on saying that. I've seen the the PRs coming through and getting merged and things like that. So yeah go ahead and give us your presentation.

[00:12:35.27] - Vijay And so so my name is Vijay and I'm also known as Crypto Tour in the Dash community. I've been working with I mean contributing to backporting pull request since 2021 focusing primarily on backporting improvements from bitcoin according to Dash and so most recently from last funding that only funding I got in January after that I have done this nine pull requests and I can so these changes or these changes are all make the code faster and fix bugs and remove things technical debts are removed and fixes in the tests we can discuss like each I can talk about each PR for example the 6308 in this this wallet tests has been corrected fixed and couple of refactors which CI wallet tool fixing it improves this it brings test accuracy and long term code maintainability and so if you can see in the detail the 6308 I have merged 2372 into 2346 so this this fixes this test and runs only if a specified wallet type is available and another is improved headers for bitcoin wallet too. So this brings accuracy test accuracy and long term code maintainability. So this is fixed. Similarly for 6534 I've removed that redundant logic in the wallet with spin tracking for better performance and clean up unused and outdated network function.

[00:14:27.20] - Vijay So this is to improve efficiency and reduces tech debt in wallet and networking code. Similarly the third PR this is have this changes test clarity by making mini wallet mode explicit. So the an improved build portability and configurations by standardized variables. So this this benefits is to cleaner test and more robust cross platform builds. Similarly 6519 this pull request this has this integer overflow issue 6519651961 this signed integer overflow and prioritized transaction RPC so I have backported this one and so this this is a potentially dangerous sign integer overflow so this is one important fix and then there was time logic with safer alternative cleans out legacy and MSVC warning so this increases correctness, security and code maintainability. The importance of this and similarly support 655-506-5550 clarifies wallet behavior through better documentation. So this and test reliability for test reliability I have fixed here so the CI CD pipeline fixing and 6552 this is for wallet performance and modularity. This is optimizing wallet IO by avoiding redundant DB reads enforces make dust testing more realistic enforces bittern calculation in the address book 6619 deadlock via recursive lock prevention fuzzing by updating data providers fixing wallet backup discovery this is for stability, test effectiveness and backup safety.

[00:16:28.18] - Vijay This is concurrency related data race. So this is thread safety issue which was brought via this pull request cleans up outdated mempools. So this is for threat safety and similarly this last 16624 is standardizing further structure for safety and clarity Remove boost dependency testing and modernizes old macros and path handling logic which leads to cleaner and more portable and easier to maintain code. So these all of these pull requests bring very important changes from which is already tested in bitcoin code which is for reading from thread safety to thread safety to this integer overflow protection and readability documentation wallet updates. So these are I mean these changes make the code faster and safer and also overall this is I mean very significant I mean work which is which I'm trying to do from since very long time I had a wonderful 2024 year like I was working with Mikhail I had we had a very then then I'm I mean since I have been working so long for this so I'm trying to trying to understand like network behavior. I mean how they I mean what when they accept or how do they accept proposal.

[00:18:07.02] - Vijay I mean these are very very important changes in supporting this proposal is a very very small investment in fact in this long term stability and performance improvement of Forward Dash network. So I mean I request the community to look into this this is a very very small I think currently it is like around 1000 USD or something. So I my request for the network is to consider this. This is an important work that helps Dash stay up to date secure and easier to build on. I mean this is A very important work, and I hope the community supports me this time. I have been consistently throughout doing this work, and I hope I get the support.

[00:18:57.13] - Rion Gull Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for going through each of those. And I. I would also say, you know, I don't think anybody doubts the importance of backporting Bitcoin.

[00:19:11.20] - Vijay We.

[00:19:12.01] - Rion Gull We are a fork of Bitcoin and we maintain upstream compatibility with that other than the. The features that are unique to Dash. And so this is a constant process that everybody thinks is. So long as we are going to maintain being a fork of Bitcoin, we have to stay in sync with Bitcoin. Dash Core group does a lot of this work. You were working through the incubator to do some of the other. Some. Some of the ones that either they weren't doing or I'm not exactly sure what the process was or how you just determine which backports you decide to do versus which backports DCG decides to do. But I would say that just in case I. I forget to say it later, I meant to say that because you've been working so long and because you had a history of working in the incubator and we were. We were paying you through the incubator at. But you've been doing it for several months without pay. If your proposal doesn't pass, and my proposal does pass, you know, I do plan on reimbursing you or compensating you for at least one of the months, at least one month's worth.

[00:20:39.05] - Rion Gull So, like, I. I will say that because I personally find it valuable, even though, you know, that would. I want. I want proposal owners to be independent. Like, that's one of my main goals in the incubator is to get people with their own independent proposals so that we get network feedback. So I understand there's a balance to be made. Whereas if the network rejects your proposal and says, for whatever reason, we don't think that the juice is worth the squeeze, whether it's too high of an ask or the quality of the work isn't up to what the network wanted, or it's just a matter of priorities, which is, I think, the most likely case that there was just. It's just been a matter of priorities. I think that's a tricky place for me to say I'm going to override the network's vote and pay you anyway from what ultimately is the network's money. But I think that most people would agree that if it's just a matter of priorities, you know, I would be happy to to kick in some of that funding if my proposal passes and yours doesn't by whatever chance. So it depends on how, how the MNOs, how the masternode owners decide to do their Tetris work this month of, you know what, what, what room is available.

[00:21:59.08] - Rion Gull So thank you for your work regardless of the outcome, Vijay.

[00:22:03.27] - Vijay And

[00:22:06.02] - Rion Gull let's I guess move on to Mikhail.

[00:22:08.26] - Anthony Campolo Good stuff. And also props for using Notepad.

[00:22:14.04] - Rion Gull Yeah, that's OG right there.

[00:22:17.07] - Mikhail Hey guys. Yeah. I want to show you what we've been doing last month and yeah, the progress in SDKs. Yeah, so last month we were focused on the depth examples and the SDK around it. There was quite huge work in testing different skin, different approaches. How can we do that? And we basically bootstrapped a new toolset. So basically a lightweight SDK which a little bit different from our original JS SDK which contains a wallet and other stuff like Core Chain, for example. What we've done, we've done just a lightweight dash platform SDK which runs straight right away. You don't need to sync kind of anything. And yeah, it works straight right away. Let me share my screen, I will show you some stuff.

[00:23:31.06] - Rion Gull Okay, I'll put it on as soon as I see it.

[00:23:45.29] - Mikhail So, yeah, the first thing that we've done, we basically rewritten the dpp. So it works. It works by acquiring the DAPI endpoints and then destralizing the responses. And so basically kind of similar to what the current SDK is doing. Yeah. So our problem was with the original wasmdpp package, which is the DCG one, there were multiple things that were bulking our work. First it was missing some features that we were desperately trying to implement and the code base is pretty much pretty heavy and pretty. So yeah, I've been spending a lot of time and trying to add some features. Then I was basically. Then, then it was going to the review and then on the review, basically. So it was kind of, kind of hard for us to. To implement all of the missing features that we need. And there were also a lot of internal bugs and architecture flows which prevented it from using in the production environment. In the JS production environment, as an example, there is a. There is a issue called. Yeah, it basically doesn't works in production bundles because when you minify the bindings, it minifies the class names and then it just cannot work because it has different name but in the code for some reason it tries to read.

[00:26:02.12] - Mikhail Let me show you. Yeah, basically it's somewhere here. Yeah, this one. It basically expects some certain class name and stuff like that. It was pretty hard to understand what is going on there. Basically what we've done, we just took all of the things from Rust DPP and implemented a new, very flexible rest was dpp, which. Which is pretty lightweight. So last time I checked the WASMDP, it was. Its size was like 10 megabytes or maybe 12 megabytes. We managed to reduce it to the 2.2 of 3 megabytes, which is kind of acceptable for the web. For the web, yeah. And another, I have a question about

[00:27:10.16] - Rion Gull the examples that you were giving and what's kind of necessitating this need in your, in your mind? Because as we've seen, you know, Anthony, he's got an app right here that, that was using the existing JavaScript SDK and it works for what he was needing. Now, Nobody's used the JavaScript SDK more than you, Mikhail. So you know how it's working, what the corner cases are and what the edge cases are that may not be working. You said in production bundles, webpack production bundles, it wasn't working. Was that for React native or.

[00:27:53.11] - Mikhail No, no, it's for the regular browser.

[00:27:56.05] - Rion Gull Regular browser. And what specifically wasn't working for you?

[00:28:00.27] - Mikhail No DPP methods was working. I actually think even no queries was working. Yeah, yeah, queries were working. Or maybe only particular queries. So this error which I was showing

[00:28:17.21] - Vijay where.

[00:28:18.15] - Mikhail Where it was. Yeah. So it fails to set metadata and metadata appears in every DAPY query. So I suppose it breaks on everything. So it breaks when you try to use platform features. It does work for the core, I believe, but I'm not sure. So. Yeah, when you minify it and stops working.

[00:28:47.05] - Rion Gull Okay.

[00:28:48.25] - Mikhail Okay, well.

[00:28:49.28] - Rion Gull And I, Yeah, I don't, I don't doubt you at all because I. I've run into. We've run into many, many problems, but we've also kind of. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. So whatever's working for you, Anthony, I'm not, I'm not sure how many platform features you're using at this point in your.

[00:29:06.14] - Anthony Campolo Yeah, I mean, for the, for the AutoShow app, it's. Right now it's just grabbing the balance. But I mean, we did the tutorial where we use every single method, so I'm not really sure what Mikhail is talking about in terms of the metadata.

[00:29:18.20] - Mikhail Did you use it in the nodes environment? On the browser environment?

[00:29:23.02] - Anthony Campolo Node environment, yeah.

[00:29:25.04] - Mikhail In note, it works perfectly. Everything works.

[00:29:27.13] - Anthony Campolo Yes, that's the thing. I just, I just do it all on the server side. So that's that's why I've never really had issues, I guess.

[00:29:32.16] - Rion Gull Yep. Yeah. And that's why I wanted to clarify that because the whole purpose behind or at least in my mind the whole purpose behind the JavaScript SDK is to be able to work on the client side in the web browser. Not assuming because we want people to be able to build applications that store and use data store to and use data from platform even if they're using. Even if they're building a single page application without a server side. So that is a big deal. I've seen it working at some points throughout the history of even in the browser purely single page application style. But through different versions sometimes you'll get one feature added and then another feature breaks. I just wanted to make sure that that was what the issue, what we

[00:30:27.27] - Mikhail used to do is just make all bundles in development mode. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's not the single. It's not the single bug or issue or such. It's currently a lot of things happening on the way. Yeah.

[00:30:47.26] - Anthony Campolo So

[00:30:50.13] - Mikhail we basically done a new WASM layer which not only have reduced size of web compatible and it also have a feature that you can reduce bundle even more by stripping out all of the functionality you don't need. So you can partially. So everything is broken down into different modules and you can build those separately and reduce your model if you don't use some kind of features.

[00:31:27.22] - Anthony Campolo Yeah.

[00:31:28.11] - Mikhail So it works pretty great. It works. I tested it to work in many environment in the Node JS environment, available environment, even the REACT native. But in the react native there is. It's kinda more complicated and they're like more complicated environment. But I ensure that it is working. It's just a bit hacky right now.

[00:31:56.08] - Anthony Campolo Okay.

[00:31:57.24] - Mikhail Yeah. So what I did next I got this wasmdpp integrated into Dash Platform SDK. This is lightweight SDK which basically allows you even loading it straight up into the web page which is not allowed. With the current JS SDK it basically isn't working. We've been in past, we've been trying to accomplish that for like an hour and couldn't manage to do that. The reason is the current JS SDK misses some polyfills. It doesn't really gets bundled for the cross compatibility. Like for example the buffer is being used everywhere which is not existing in the web. I have bundled it for every environment. You can use it in your regular front end like in the REACT applications. You can use it in the Node JS with the common JS syntax and you can even load it straight to the web page and it's basically gets available in the window environment. In the window object. Yeah, it's pretty much very easy. You just supply some of the parameters and then. And then you can execute the queries. So how it works it just have some predefined list of seed nodes. This is one that. That I'm spinning up few DCGs.

[00:33:30.05] - Mikhail But yeah, when you're. When you're creating an SDK it automatically fetches the list of master nodes from the AJ's digital cache RPC. And yeah, when you're creating an SDK. So basically if it's possible it fetches the recent addresses of the ip. If not, it just uses the static ones. Yeah, currently I have implemented the most simple things like data contract. Yeah, get data contract. It is possible to create a data contract. I just haven't got to this. I will edit pretty soon. You can create and get the document from the dapi. You can retrieve information about identities like get balance, get identifier, get by identifier get by public key hash. Get all the nonsense for your transactions. Get it public keys. Yeah, I didn't put the identity registration yet. And this is the thing that I'm thinking of because. Because this dash platform SDK is designed to work with only platform it doesn't have core functionalities. So what we possibly could do, we could possibly create a separate function for creating an identity when you pass complete asset lock proof from the color chain. Yeah, because. Yeah, because I don't want to put core functions into this platform SDK.

[00:35:21.28] - Mikhail But we will talk about this later how it could be used.

[00:35:25.22] - Vijay Okay.

[00:35:26.02] - Mikhail Yeah, yeah. So name search and some utility functions like you can get the status of the master node which retrieves your versions the broadcast wait for transition result, stuff like that and some utilities. Yeah, this is already can be used for making an applications. So it's working. It's cross compatible. It weights like two or three megabytes I believe. Let's see actually how far it reason Horizon. Yeah, it's three megabytes right now. But. But yeah, we will try not to raise it even more. There are things. Yeah, there are things to optimize. For example, yesterday Matt Peterson showed me another GRPC library which should reduce it even less. Anyway. Yeah, it is already working and it is already. You can do it for acquiring and submitting the documents. Yeah, but so how does it work? So like with the. With the current. With the regular JS SDK you're just putting your seed phrase or private keys. Actually seed phrase. I Think you can only use seed phrase because. Yeah, yeah, but it's. With the current platform SDK you basically can sign your transactions with the private keys which is. Which is bound to your identities. For example, each identity have some set of public keys which you can use to create the transactions to sign the transactions in the network.

[00:37:26.10] - Mikhail Our SDK does not implement any wallet, so you don't have to provide a seed phrase to it. All you have to do is just provide a simple private key from your identity that can be shown for example in the dt. Right. When you're for example, things like this. Yeah, so yeah it is currently responsibility of the developers who are using this SDK to. To handle those private keys. So anyway, the user have to insert the private key inside the dev application and that's not really the best use case because yeah, we want to make it as transparent for a user and secure as possible. So like in the Ethereum we have metamask which allows you to send the transactions so you can see what you are signing. And you don't necessarily put private keys into the web applications. So what I did next basically I bootstrapped, I sketched platform extension. Platform extension. Yeah, it works like. It's kind of ugly right now. I know, I know but we will work on that and just was hardly working on the functionality and how to connect all things together. Yeah. So basically how it's working it's just like storage for your identity private keys.

[00:39:22.06] - Mikhail So you just put your private key inside the extension one time and then you can use it on every page. Every page you're visiting like you're visiting any depth application. It's just the SDK gets straight right available straight right away in the window object and developers can use it the same as MetaMask is working. So yeah, This is an example how to. How to use it. So basically with the sd, you get the SDK from the window, for example, you want to send message. Yeah you get the SDK from the window object, then you get all the parameters and then you do some stuff, create this transition and then you can invoke a signer which basically opens the approved transaction dialog. Yeah, so it's a small extension. So when you open that you can see like two buttons. Important register, register right now is grayed out, but I will implement it later. When you click import you can import the private key in hex or VIF format. So what we, what I wanted to do is to show you. So yeah, basically it requires you to to import your private key to create to get your private key, it's just supposed that you are registered your identity somewhere elsewhere for example in Dash Eva tool and then you can just import the private key.

[00:41:21.17] - Mikhail Let's try and create a new identity. There is an option

[00:41:28.20] - Rion Gull while you're doing that. What are your thoughts about why doesn't.

[00:41:35.14] - Vijay Yeah.

[00:41:35.20] - Rion Gull What are your thoughts about creating the identity? In the extension itself?

[00:41:43.09] - Mikhail Yeah. In the extension itself. Yeah. Let me show you actually how nobody's

[00:41:49.17] - Rion Gull going to want to download Dash Evo tool like just normal users. Right? Normal users aren't going to want to do that. Right.

[00:41:56.25] - Mikhail Yeah. Here is the mocks. Here's the mocks of my application that, that I sketched. So basically how it could work Right now the most complicated part is in asset lock transactions because you don't want to put your seed phrase in and any private keys. What you would like to do is to just to pay with your QR code through your Dash application or redirect you to the the any other applications like Dash Core Dash Electrum. But it's currently not possible. So it's not possible. Right now we have an ability to. To pay by QR code by. By the link pay pay with Link. But it's only for regular payments. You can do specialized transactions. Right now you can do a set lock transaction. So yeah, for implementing a registration in in the extension in like industrialized way without relying on any any other so any other services or stuff like that. So yeah, we have to have some kind of way to create specialized transactions from our wallets. So to make this work the way I was thinking that we could do a centralized gateway which will help you registering your identity. Basically it takes care of creating an asset lock transactions which is providing you a collateral for registering your identity in the platform.

[00:43:48.29] - Mikhail But it don't exchange it don't share any private any your identity private keys. With this service, what it basically does, it shares a one time private key with this service which is basically allows you to send a regular Dash payment to some address and then it creates an asset lock transaction. Then it then you can use it as a collateral in the platform register identity transaction. So it's kinda not like decentralized but it's kind of way that we could make this work. Registering inside the extension. Yeah. Is it clear for your ren how it's working?

[00:44:40.21] - Rion Gull Yeah, I think a lot of users are used to the idea of either generating or importing even a phrase, a seed phrase. So that's the whole idea behind extensions is that you trust one extension and then after you've trusted one extension wallet, then you don't have to trust any of the applications because all of the wallet features are done in the extension and the applications are just asking to sign things or give, give the application permission to do various things without asking after that point. So that is the experience that most people have with decentralized applications. So I'm personally not opposed to the idea of, you know, generating, generating or importing seed phrases into extensions. There are other ways to do this, things that I've talked with AJ about, for example, because extensions, even extensions are quite insecure when you, when you get down to the details of things. But you know, this is all about user experience.

[00:45:58.04] - Mikhail Of course. Yeah, nobody wants what. Personally I don't like the idea of holding any like private keys or seed phrase either in the extension. I believe that should be delegated to the mobile app.

[00:46:10.11] - Anthony Campolo Right.

[00:46:10.23] - Rion Gull So that's another option.

[00:46:13.17] - Mikhail That's the option.

[00:46:14.14] - Rion Gull At the end of the day you're going to have to trust some application, whether it's an extension, an application, a web application, a mobile application. At some point the user has to trust some developer that built some application to hold the private keys. I don't think anybody would dispute that. The only thing is how do we minimize the trust and how do we make sure that it's a good user experience so that users feel comfortable with the small amounts that they are using on web applications and through extensions.

[00:46:50.20] - Mikhail Let me show you how it's working.

[00:46:55.07] - Rion Gull You jumped in here. Did you have something to say?

[00:46:58.21] - Anthony Campolo No, just I agree that, you know, the dash ecosystem in general is always like technically sharp, but the UX sometimes leaves a bit to be desired.

[00:47:12.23] - Rion Gull Right. And mostly because we don't have millions and millions of dollars of VC funding. But that's. Yeah, that's

[00:47:21.25] - Mikhail okay.

[00:47:23.11] - Rion Gull But go ahead and finish what you're demoing.

[00:47:27.06] - Mikhail Let's use the existing identity just to save some time. So I have already registered an identity today in the testnet. It's all in the testnet. We can see the keys and what we want to do here is export to private key which is invalid import format called vif. Let's try to import that through our extension. We click check and then it almost instantly gives your, your identity information. Here is identifier which is matches what we have in the deity and we have actual balance. Here it is, we imported our identity, we can see the balance. We can see some grayed out buttons. Again, we can see some transactions that related to this identity. For example. This is maybe identification anyway. Yeah, so what Happens when you visit the DEP application. This is the sample application that I just made for like a proof of concept. So what it does, it just. It just gets a Dash platform SDK from the window. It queries some documents from the data contract. If there is. It will show you. Yeah. And basically it creates a transaction. Let's try to do that. So once you click on the transaction.

[00:49:21.14] - Mikhail Wait a second. Yeah. Once you click on the Create new transaction button, an approved transaction appears from here, from the extension. Then you click sign and it instantly gets broadcasted to the network. You can copy your transaction hash, close and check. We can already see the transaction is in the network. Awesome.

[00:49:52.25] - Rion Gull Yeah, that's a good demo that. I don't care how it looks at this point. Getting the nuts and bolts working together where the extension is communicating with an application, which the application communicates with the SDK. And the SDK is a revised version that you've written of the SDK that Anthony's using in his application from dcg, for example. It seems like you've got the basics of all of those components working together, which is great. We've been able to do that with the old SDK. You've done it now with a newer SDK that has pros advantages over the older SDK. Unless you had something else to demo. I wanted to then transition the conversation to what I'm working on with Matt and then a little bit of discussion about the proposals and how.

[00:50:53.16] - Mikhail Yeah, I wanted to have really quite a small chat about mobile applications. So what I did, I tested the Dash platform SDK in the React native, which is cross platform mobile framework, which is being used by a lot of. A lot of developers right now. Yeah. What. So yeah, it, it was. We were talking about that the private keys and identities should be held in some secure storages like mobile wallets. So that's what I was planning to also implement. So in the future version of the extensions, you could just delegate the storage of your identities in the mobile applications. So what I did I.

[00:51:49.03] - Rion Gull And by the mobile applications, do you. It's always been my preference. And even Andy, like way back when Andy was running the incubator, he was very, very opinionated that everything should be contacting not just any old application or an extension even, but the actual Dash Pay from DCG application. So is that what you mean by mobile app? Do you. Do you mean that you should have being stored in Dash Pay from dcg?

[00:52:21.28] - Mikhail It would be really great to integrate it with the Dash Pay wallet, but I'm not sure what's the current resources and capabilities there in the mobile team and how fast it could be done? What I was thinking is to make a proof of concept, another proof of concept, the mobile wallet, which can hold that entity storage that you can use with your extension just to prove that this kind of communication works. Because I believe that would require something. Totally will require something. Something else. Yeah.

[00:53:02.05] - Rion Gull So just to be clear about what you're suggesting here is you're saying that a decentralized web applications would instead of communicating with an extension wallet to sign transactions on the user's behalf, it would communicate over platform through and then a mobile application would be holding a separate mobile app, would be holding your keys to approve web application communications.

[00:53:34.15] - Mikhail And it will, it will communicate, it will talk with the extension, but extension will take care of connection with your mobile wallet.

[00:53:45.25] - Rion Gull Okay, so in your proof of concept here, you're still having an extension. I thought that you were suggesting doing away with the need for an extension and replacing that with a mobile application, which is something.

[00:53:58.14] - Mikhail No, no, no, it's additional. Additional. So you could use just extension, you could use import your private keys into extension or you could use your mobile app. So just pop up your mobile app and just scan QR code or stuff like that. Like, you know, like the same. Like the wallet connect working, something similar.

[00:54:16.21] - Rion Gull Okay. And so do you have that to demo so that we can discuss?

[00:54:23.05] - Mikhail What I was managed to do is to test the DISH platform SDK in the REACT native environment. But there are some issues, but I wasn't able to do that. It just requires some more time to. To do things. Yeah, so yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Yeah.

[00:54:48.08] - Vijay Okay.

[00:54:51.07] - Rion Gull Okay, I'm gonna put my screen share on just. I'll briefly talk about this. There's not a lot of time. We're already kind of later than I wanted to be. But you know that space is going to be fine. It takes a while to get started and they go for hours and hours. So I'm not going to let that get in the way here. But I just wanted to talk briefly about what Matt has been doing. Matt unfortunately has been quite sick for seems like a week or more and so he wasn't able to join the call today. But he has been, he has been busy working at. But however, between some priorities that he's had, some non dash priorities he's had being sick and some other things, unfortunately he hasn't been able to. To get to as much as I was hoping for in terms of his side of the SDK. Work is going. But I wanted to just show what he's done recently. Like he's, he's doing his work in the. Let's see, this is Dash Hive Dash platform. This is comparing his branch with the base Dash Hive platform JS branch just to kind of show what he's been working on.

[00:56:15.23] - Rion Gull Last year he started, was working a lot in March and then he did some things in April as well. He's trying to get to the point where he can demo the creation of an identity, then using that identity to create a data contract and then from that data contract creating a document. So here's the data contract. You also saw some generated stuff. I'll talk about that in a minute. And then like I said, creating a document from that on top of that data contract. And you can also see there's some, a built folder that's, that has a lot of, I assume generated files as well. So this is all. He's not to the point where he can demo all of those three steps. Like this is the main three step demo that we've been working towards creating an identity, a data contract and documents. We'll get there soon. However, the difference between this and what you are working on, Mikhail, is that I feel very strongly that we should have the most performant and lightweight and user friendly SDK as we can have. Because as opposed to somebody like Anthony who has worked a lot with our existing SDK and has developed Stockholm syndrome and has loved his abuser, something like that, most developers are not going to have that kind of patience or incentive to work through all the warts of the existing SDK.

[00:58:23.07] - Rion Gull And everybody acknowledges that there's a lot of work to be done on the SDK. So I'm envisioning a future where I'm aiming big, right? I'm aiming big. I'm aiming to a future where we can have an SDK that integrates with some of these front end frameworks. If the frameworks, after having spent years and years to get their frameworks themselves down to tens of kilobytes, if we're asking developers to add on megabytes of data just to get our stuff working, I think that that's too much to ask for the non interested developers. So I'm trying to get, I'm trying to have an SDK that is, that basically gives nobody an excuse other than I just hate cryptocurrency so I don't want to use that. But in terms of like size and user experience and performance, I want it to be as good as possible. And so the way that, that I see us doing that is writing it in pure JavaScript, but that's a library that's auto generated directly from the single source of truth, which is the Rust Dash platform protocol and the Rust code base in general. And so what you're doing, Mikhail, I'll just switch to the discussion screen again.

[00:59:54.18] - Rion Gull What you're doing is you're kind of fine tuning the existing Dash platform protocol and still using WASM bindings. And I see a future where that might be the first step. Right. And you've said that you've gotten some gains where you've taken it from 10 megabytes down to 2 megabytes. It's faster. But I'm shooting for a future where we're dealing with hundreds of milliseconds of time rather than seconds and we're dealing with kilobytes of size rather than megabytes of size. And where everything, the whole SDK is completely type safe, where developers can just say dash dot and then they have all of the autocompleted methods and everything like that. That's, that's extremely important so that people have to deal with documentation. Everything that Matt has done to this point is toward that future where, where we have fully type safe SDK that, that shows everything and is very debuggable because you're never going to run into a black box where it says oh, this is, this is WASM code base. So that's the future where I'm headed now. Mikhail, any thoughts on that so far?

[01:01:28.22] - Mikhail I agree with you. I agree with you that we should have so called JS DPP that will be lightweight and work fast and cross compatible between environments like with React Native for example, which have problems with, had

[01:01:47.21] - Rion Gull problems with where you introduce wasm, you're going to run into an edge case, of course, of course, some kind of cloud function. I remember the first time that I, I as a developer with my developer hat on, I tried to use the Dash SDK and I tried to use it in a lambda function on AWS and it just, it just did not like it. Right. Because part of that is wasm and part of it is just how WASM is built and everything. It's not working on certain architectures that AWS is running. So there's just gonna be edge cases anytime where you introduce wasm, even if it's not a performance issue, even if it's not a size issue, it's going to be a debugging and developer experience issue at some point with certain architectures where if it's pure JavaScript, you know, this is what people have spent decades everything supports JavaScript these days, but not everything supports Rust and Wasm. So that's my opinion. I, I think that we can get there. I think that we're actually very close to being there. We just unfortunately didn't get between Matt's conflicts and, and being sick, we just didn't get to that demo this month.

[01:03:03.05] - Rion Gull But I do think that between you and you working on higher level APIs and just working with yeah. Higher level APIs and with Matt working on the lower level stuff that you know he can do, he can do that low level anything that you throw at him. He knows the Rust, he knows he knows tooling, he knows TypeScript. Matt can do almost anything that I throw at him is as long as he has enough time and has the priority to do it and the incentives financial being one of those, he can do it. So between you guys working together, continuing to work together, I think that that's a definite possibility. Now the. Did you have anything else to say to that? Because I'm going to jump now to the.

[01:03:52.26] - Mikhail Yeah, I, I wanted to say that I agree with you. Yeah, I would really love to see JSDPP and as soon as we have some examples or some working stuff, I would like to try it in our SDK and eventually I think we will switch over to jsdbp. That's our like it's possible, it's possible to flip was designed in the way that we can switch the library of serialization. Serialization. Oh good.

[01:04:24.08] - Rion Gull Yeah, because that's what I was worried about a little bit when I first saw your proposal. I was a little worried because I don't build on the WASM foundation any longer than we have to. But I understand also that you want to move fast and you want to have an SDK with a good API as fast as possible. I just want it to be built on the foundation of JSDPP rather than wasm DPP or any modifications to that, optimizations to that now and again. I understand you want to, you want to move fast. So there's not. Yeah, this, this is the hard part of the conversation. There's, there's no way, there's no scenario where everybody's going to get what they want this month in terms of funding and being able to continue developing toward this, this future. But I did want to, I did want to sketch out some scenarios that the MNOs can use in their decision making. With the last three days of voting here Just so that you have an informed decision. So Mikhail, before we jump into that, did you have anything else to say about technical things before I get into the politics of Treasury?

[01:05:44.07] - Rion Gull Thunderdomes.

[01:05:47.29] - Mikhail I think, I think I'm good. I think I'm good.

[01:05:50.26] - Rion Gull Okay, feel free to just share. Yeah, Thunderdome. Okay, let's see. Okay, so here's, here's how the, the treasury looks. I'll bump up the font a little bit. Here's how the treasury looks right now. There's like you can see three days left of voting. I don't know if crowd nodes voted or not by, by now. Let's, let's just refresh and see if there's a new update. Yeah, 2.96 days available. When you go to, when you click on that advance, you can see like the recent votes coming in. It looks like, it looks like crowd node was not like you can tell when crowd node votes because it, it looks like there's a lot of votes that come in. So that, that hasn't come, come through yet. So but as you can also see down here, the remaining balance, if all proposals would pass, which is not possible, would be minus 1500 dash. So in other words, the, the treasury system is 1500 dash over subscribed. There are people that are asking for 1500 dash more than the budget limit will allow. And so not everybody's proposal is going to pass, including potentially my own. But there are, like I said, some scenarios where depending on priorities, people's priorities, like do you, do you want to prioritize development?

[01:07:18.29] - Rion Gull Do you want to prioritize marketing? What do you want to prioritize? I think, I think all the M. Os, they, they would like to be able to, to fund things, right. But it's all about budget constraints and priorities. So I just wanted to sketch out. So there's a little spreadsheet. It shows the active proposals and three different scenarios in these A, B and C columns where if you check a box it will update this sum. This is the amount of dash that's available left in the scenario. In other words, less than a positive number here would be. There would be 1.2 dash remaining in this scenario based on the, the existing budget. So I just always kind of assume that everything that DCG proposes is going to pass. I've rearranged these, by the way. This isn't, this isn't in the order of the votes right now. This is just kind of collected amongst groups. So you, here you have this, this is the DCG block. Kitty Whiskers Van Gogh is part of DCG, so he has his own separate proposal that's requesting 200, for example. I just assume that everything DCG proposes is going to pass.

[01:08:36.22] - Rion Gull So that's just my assumption. It doesn't have to be that way, but that's how it's been in the past. So I just assume that's a constraint. These are some proposals that are relatively high in the list and then again I've reordered these to be DFO specific. So here's all of your proposals. Mikhail Chenick. Here's my proposal. Vijay, here's your proposal. Anthony, here's your proposal. I just put those together just for simplicity. Here's the desert links. No, Joelle, I didn't put you down at the bottom because I don't like what you're doing. In fact, I love what you're doing, especially with the DASH Growth stuff. It's just again collecting these together. However, I will say I, I am personally, we don't have an option where everybody can have what they want again. And being a somebody who's focused on development and actual utility, whether or not the market likes that, that is my focus. We want actual utility. And so I'm naturally going to be more developer focused. So I'll start with this, this scenario right here. This a scenario where DCG is getting all their proposals passed. Mikhail, two of your proposals are passing in this scenario.

[01:09:56.21] - Rion Gull My proposal is going to be passing in each of these scenarios that I'm interested in, obviously because I'm self interested. But there's obviously scenarios where you know, my proposal doesn't pass and then that leaves room for other proposals, for example. So what I, this is a scenario basically that assumes that everything Joel has proposed is also going to pass other than this iOS supplemental proposal which hasn't passed ever. So I'm assuming that that's not going to pass as well. And so these are both just kind of like dead proposals that I, that aren't going to pass. But these are all active proposals that the proposal owner is kind of gunning for. You have dash gross main proposal 530 dash and then you have a war chest proposal and then this market across PR proposal and then this is just a one DASH confidential transactions decision proposals. That's not very meaningful. But I just leave that checked. So this is, this is the scenario basically where DASH Growth gets all their proposals passed and then what's left is you, you know, we have difficult decisions about, well, either these two proposals can't pass or if mine doesn't Pass.

[01:11:14.00] - Rion Gull And these pass. You can just kind of see what's available. And yeah, there's just different ways to, to look at all this. But I'll go ahead and skip through to what I think is, I'll go skip ahead to scenario B. DCG is still getting everything there asking for, you'll notice. You know, I, I haven't checked DASH Money's proposal in any of these. That's not necessarily because I don't like what he's doing, but I just don't know like I don't exactly know what hidden from the learned and clever is supposed to mean necessarily. I've read the proposal. It seems like a lot of higher level stuff that I personally am not prioritizing. But again that's up to the network. And this is a scenario where the market across proposal would not get funded yet. But I guess my, my pitch here is that there is a scenario where you know, DCG, all DCG's proposals get funded, all of Mikhail's proposals get funded. My proposal gets funded in this scenario. The AutoShow ajc, Deb, yours Anthony, would not get funded. But the main thing here is this, this marketing push the market across stuff. I just don't think we're ready for it.

[01:12:45.21] - Rion Gull Like I, I do agree that it's something that we could try, but when it's compared against the importance of getting an SDK out that's working and functional and a joy to use for developers, I think that that should take priority over the marketing of that thing. So I do see a scenario where it's, it's detrimental to us as a network if we push a marketing proposal and give a bunch of money to a third party marketing agency. Not Joelle, because I would be happy, I'd be more than happy to send money to Joel, but a third party marketing PR company, I don't think that's the priority for me right now. And there is a scenario where we can get most of the SDK stuff funded and then the marketing stuff can. It's a four month proposal as you can see here. So if that comes later, you know, I think, I think this PR firm can, can wait until we have good developer tooling. And I, I think that Joel was, was hoping that, you know, the marketing push would help increase the price of Dash, but I think we've done that before. We've done, we've tried to contract out to marketing firms to, to get price of DASH up and it just hasn't happened as far as I can tell.

[01:14:15.02] - Rion Gull And I don't expect it to happen. But again, it's. It's not up to me. It's up to you guys. I'm just making my case for. I think that we should postpone, not, not necessarily reject, but just postpone the market across the Market across Initiative until we have better developer tooling to be able to say, okay, not only are we marketing something, but we have something to market.

[01:14:46.01] - Anthony Campolo And have you considered partnering with Hawk TUA that might get the price up?

[01:14:51.19] - Rion Gull Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people have considered it. I. I don't really. I never even really got into that stuff.

[01:15:00.15] - Anthony Campolo Thanks for putting all these scenarios together. This is very enlightening.

[01:15:04.23] - Rion Gull Yeah. Yeah. And again, like, I. I'm not trying to suggest that this is necessarily what people should vote on or what they shouldn't vote on, but I'm just. I'm just saying I'm trying to give people an opportunity to make an informed decision. I personally think that the SDK work is the priority right now so that we can have. We can do grassroots marketing with real applications and utility. And I think that we're. We're pretty close like with. With what you're doing, Mikhail and what Matt's doing. I think that there's a scenario where we can get that done relatively quickly, maybe two months and then fund the evolution, the. The marketing war chest and the market across initiative in two months from now. That. That would be my preference. So. Yeah, but we'll see how it goes. They. The M. OS do their. Do their Tetris moving a lot in. In the last three days and it's always exciting, I guess I'll say. So anything. Any last thoughts from you guys on after seeing. Yeah, just any. Any last thoughts that you guys wanted to share after having that little discussion?

[01:16:38.08] - Mikhail Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty tough months. Pretty tough month going to be as well as the previous we were. You know. But yeah, it's pretty. Pretty cool. We have pretty much proposal. We have something about this decay which I really like how it's going and yeah, I would like to just, I don't know, say some good things about it. Nothing. Nothing much from my side.

[01:17:13.24] - Rion Gull Okay. Yeah.

[01:17:17.19] - Anthony Campolo To your stream to your OR space.

[01:17:20.28] - Rion Gull Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna go. Go jump on that. I. I do think that marketing is important, but I think it should be grassroots marketing. I think it should be that type of marketing like. Like with the Twitter spaces. I'd actually like to do a lot more of that. Joel has said that he would be happy to give me the Dash community Twitter account to play around with and try to try to get some more discussion from Web2, Web3 kind of things and Trad5 versus D5 kind of things. So I'm hoping that that will still work out. Vijay, welcome back. Any, any final remarks from you?

[01:18:05.08] - Vijay Yeah, I hope that I'll get some, I mean, support this time. Only got one month of and then you have helped me and I'm thankful for that.

[01:18:18.03] - Rion Gull Yep. Yeah. And like, like I said, if, if by chance your proposal doesn't pass, but mine does, I'm happy to, to send you that 50 dash your way as well. And yeah, we'll, we'll see what happens. Thanks everybody for tuning in. And I'll see you on the next Incubator Weekly or on the Space or whatever in the Discord. Bye, everybody.

[01:18:41.29] - Vijay Yep. Bye.