Anthony Campolo and Christopher Burns discuss approaches to user analytics and privacy tooling including consent management and open-source strategies.
Episode Description
Anthony Campolo and Christopher Burns discuss a new approach to user analytics and privacy tooling, covering consent management, open-source strategies, and future development prospects.
Episode Summary
This conversation focuses on Christopher Burns’s latest open-source project aimed at simplifying user analytics, privacy consent, and cookie management. They begin by highlighting their shared history in podcasting and open-source advocacy, explaining how these experiences inform their technical perspectives. Christopher then recounts lessons learned from his startup journey, addressing the mental and practical challenges of pivoting from developer tools to enterprise clients. The discussion shifts to a detailed exploration of privacy laws, cookies, and compliance requirements across different regions, illustrating the complexity developers face. They also cover implementation strategies using frameworks, libraries, and state management solutions, emphasizing a modular approach that supports customization. The conversation concludes with potential future directions for the project, including open-source contributions, possible commercialization, and evolving best practices for privacy-centric development.
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction and Catching Up
In the opening moments, Anthony greets Christopher Burns and welcomes him back for a discussion that bridges their history from podcasting days to current endeavors. They exchange updates on their personal lives, including shifts in work and lingering thoughts about past collaborations. Christopher reflects on the time since they last teamed up, recalling how those earlier projects and community engagements shaped his understanding of open-source initiatives.
They move on to reminisce about FS Jam, a podcast they once co-hosted, highlighting why it remains a special chapter in both their careers. The conversation underscores Christopher’s enthusiasm for forging new paths in software, emphasizing his entrepreneurial spirit. This casual rapport sets the tone for a deep, yet approachable, exploration of technical and professional challenges that follow in later segments.
05:00 - Early Startup Experiences and Lessons
Christopher begins outlining his time as a startup founder, describing how he and his co-founder launched their initial venture. He acknowledges the difficulty of sustaining energy, funding, and motivation when a product doesn’t meet growth expectations within a limited window. Their fundraising journey, team-building efforts, and eventual pivot exemplify the roller coaster ride many young founders face.
He shares insights into how early optimism can sometimes clash with the realities of enterprise versus developer-focused products. The tension between following a gut feeling and heeding investor advice is a recurring theme. Anthony complements this perspective by recalling the wave of “failed startup” blog posts that used to fill the tech sphere, emphasizing how each founder’s narrative offers a roadmap for anyone wanting to embark on a similar path.
10:00 - Pivots, Mental Health, and Closing a Company
The conversation turns more introspective as Christopher delves into the emotional toll of realizing a company may not meet its goals. He highlights the difficult decision to wind down operations, emphasizing that it wasn’t merely financial constraints but also mental fatigue and shifting passion. Anthony picks up on this, noting how public perceptions of “startup failure” often overshadow the personal cost.
Christopher explains that stepping away from a product he poured years into wasn’t easy, yet it freed him to explore fresh opportunities. The pair discuss how founders sometimes feel pressured to keep fighting for an idea even when it’s no longer fulfilling. By bringing up mental health and pragmatic decision-making, they present a balanced view that underscores both the ambition and vulnerability intrinsic to entrepreneurship.
15:00 - Transitioning from Developer Tools to Enterprise
As they dig into product strategy, Christopher recalls how his startup initially aimed at developer tools but ultimately leaned into an enterprise-first model. He explains that while developers loved certain features, they often lacked the decision-making power to drive substantial revenue. This shift to larger-scale clients required more robust support, additional features, and a deeper understanding of compliance requirements.
Anthony contrasts this process with the natural affinity many startup founders have for building tools that fellow developers enjoy. The friction arises when user enthusiasm doesn’t translate into business traction. Christopher shares how data from product launches—such as a splash on Product Hunt—may mask the lack of meaningful, paying customers. The lesson: enterprise deals can offer growth but demand a broader skill set, from negotiation to specialized marketing and sales approaches.
20:00 - Considering New Directions and Entrepreneurial Mindset
Christopher outlines the possible paths for his next move: seeking employment, consulting, or starting another venture from scratch. Anthony picks up on Christopher’s entrepreneurial streak, suggesting that an environment like the U.S. might nurture his ambition more than certain markets abroad. They discuss how an ecosystem built around startup culture can be crucial for growth.
The conversation touches on the allure of diving straight into a new project when fresh ideas remain too enticing to ignore. Christopher underscores the importance of mental readiness, pointing out that it’s wise to pause, reflect, and choose a direction that aligns with personal well-being. This segment sets the stage for unveiling the nascent project Christopher has been quietly building—a unifying theme for the rest of the episode.
25:00 - Introducing the Idea of “Better Events”
Shifting gears, Christopher presents “Better Events,” his latest open-source initiative focused on user analytics and privacy consent. He shares how it grew from the complexities he encountered trying to integrate multiple marketing scripts, analytics tools, and compliance elements into a seamless system. From Facebook conversion APIs to enterprise-level tracking needs, Christopher realized there was an opportunity to simplify the chaotic landscape.
He sketches out the project’s guiding principles, which include speed, minimal intrusion on front-end performance, and user-friendly design. By making a single event dispatch to multiple destinations in a relay-like fashion, “Better Events” promises to reduce overhead and streamline code. Anthony listens intently, recognizing parallels with existing products but also acknowledging Christopher’s unique angle in offering a more developer-centric approach to privacy.
30:00 - Developer-Centric Privacy and Analytics
Christopher expands on why a front-end alone approach to analytics can be risky, often getting blocked by ad filters or complicated by cookie banners. He suggests that a server-side or relay-based model might provide more consistent data. Anthony weighs in, noting how important it is for modern applications to ensure accurate metrics and user behavior insights without compromising performance.
They compare the new project’s aims to established solutions, explaining how it might integrate easily with or replace tools like PostHog. Keeping the developer experience smooth is critical. Both hosts agree that streamlined, extensible solutions lower the barrier for broader community adoption. This sets the stage for an in-depth look at privacy regulations and compliance challenges that “Better Events” seeks to address.
35:00 - Privacy Compliance Across Different Regions
The conversation moves to the global patchwork of privacy laws that developers must navigate, including GDPR in Europe, CCPA in California, and LGPD in Brazil. Christopher highlights how each jurisdiction can have varied requirements, making universal compliance a puzzle. He points out that “cookie banners” are just the tip of the iceberg, because true compliance might also demand back-end records of every user’s consent.
Anthony remarks on the irony that regulations aimed at safeguarding privacy often require companies to retain more user data for proof of compliance. Christopher sees this as an opportunity for “Better Events” to unify and automate these layers, reducing the developer’s burden. By collecting necessary data while respecting local rules, developers can focus on building features rather than wrestling with legal complexities.
40:00 - Rethinking Cookie Banners and Consent Management
Christopher zeroes in on cookie banners as a key pain point, emphasizing how mainstream solutions can slow page loads and create clunky user experiences. He reveals how “Better Events” aims to give developers granular control over scripts that run based on user consent categories, such as marketing or analytics. Instead of a one-size-fits-all overlay, Christopher envisions headless components that blend seamlessly into any design system.
He also explains that many existing tools handle banners in isolation, but few unify them with the broader analytics pipeline. By letting developers conditionally load scripts and track user preferences, “Better Events” can reduce friction and improve user trust. Anthony points out the growing demand for such solutions, especially in organizations that juggle multiple marketing channels or serve international audiences.
45:00 - Building a Modular and Open-Source Foundation
Diving deeper into technical details, Christopher explains how state management libraries like Zustand enable a unified data store for user consent across an application. This approach keeps track of local storage preferences, ensuring that once a user’s choices are set, they persist seamlessly. By attaching the store to the window object, “Better Events” remains framework-agnostic, supporting everything from React to potential WordPress integrations.
He underscores that while a default interface may exist, the real power lies in letting developers craft their own banners. They discuss how this model fosters accessibility and brand consistency, enabling teams to implement cohesive designs. Anthony recognizes the benefits for projects of all sizes, from scrappy side gigs to enterprise-level applications, highlighting open source as a natural fit for such a broadly needed solution.
50:00 - Handling Script Injection and Conditional Loading
The focus shifts to the mechanics of adding or blocking scripts. Christopher describes a system where developers label scripts by category (e.g., “necessary,” “marketing,” “measurement”), and “Better Events” automatically determines whether to run them, based on user consent. This spares teams from writing conditional checks throughout their codebase.
Anthony highlights the complexity in a typical marketing department’s demands, which often push multiple third-party tools onto a site. Christopher frames his solution as a relief valve for these collisions, allowing an organization to quickly diagnose which scripts are loaded and why. Both see a significant advantage in having a single source of truth for all event tracking and script decisions, especially when debugging or optimizing performance.
55:00 - React Integration and State Management Approaches
Here, Christopher walks through how to integrate “Better Events” into a React application without overengineering the solution. He recalls how previous ventures found themselves tangled in extensive logic for cookie banners alone. By focusing on modular, headless hooks, he keeps the library lightweight and flexible for diverse user needs.
They revisit the lessons from working on prior startups, noting how entire projects can stall if the front-end becomes too cumbersome. Christopher insists that clarity and ease of adoption drive his design choices. In response, Anthony points out how projects like Redwood or Next.js thrive because they offer a straightforward developer experience. This alignment with developer expectations sets the ground for the upcoming discussion on ShadCN.
60:00 - ShadCN and Building a Customizable UI Library
Christopher introduces ShadCN as the design system approach behind his cookie banner and privacy components. He appreciates how it copies component code directly into a user’s project, offering deep customization without needing to override library defaults. Anthony, who hasn’t used ShadCN, finds it intriguing for its granular control and minimal overhead.
They compare ShadCN’s style to other frameworks and highlight the trend of inlining component code for maximum flexibility. Christopher walks through his own process of creating a repository of reusable UI elements, from cookie modals to toggle switches, that others can easily integrate. The conversation zeroes in on how removing friction and complexity for front-end developers can accelerate the adoption of privacy-friendly tools.
65:00 - Open Source Collaboration and Maintenance
Now, the discussion pivots to the broader open source ethos. Christopher emphasizes that “Better Events” isn’t just a side project for him; it’s an attempt to solve a widespread developer pain point in a transparent, community-driven way. Anthony affirms how open-source contributions can strengthen a project’s foundation by attracting expertise from across the globe.
They also mention potential challenges, from sustaining the library to ensuring backward compatibility. Christopher shares his aspiration to keep the core lean and let the community drive specialized integrations. They agree that the future of data compliance and analytics is an active space for developer collaboration, with new regulations and technologies emerging regularly.
70:00 - Project Possibilities and Commercial Potential
Christopher briefly contemplates whether “Better Events” could evolve into a full-fledged company. He sees a path to monetizing enterprise services around consent record-keeping and advanced analytics relays. Anthony suggests that starting with a robust open source core might attract both individual developers and business clients looking for premium features.
They talk about how storing consent logs or integrating with existing solutions might become additional offerings. At the same time, Christopher remains realistic, acknowledging he is still weighing job opportunities and consulting gigs. The synergy of a flexible, open source tool with enterprise add-ons emerges as a compelling model, yet no firm decision is made.
75:00 - Reflecting on Lessons and Future Directions
The conversation circles back to how Christopher’s startup journey set the stage for this new project. He reiterates that many of the pain points now addressed in “Better Events” stem directly from real-world scenarios he experienced, from clashing marketing scripts to unwieldy compliance demands. Anthony praises the clarity of Christopher’s code and approach, noting how easily others can pick up the library.
They discuss next steps, including community engagement, documentation improvements, and real-world trials. Christopher hopes that showcasing a working demo and producing thorough technical guides will attract early adopters. As they near the conclusion, both hosts express excitement about the intersection of privacy, user experience, and open source development—a topic they feel is increasingly relevant to anyone building modern web applications.
80:00 - Wrapping Up and Parting Thoughts
In the final stretch, Christopher summarizes his vision for “Better Events.” He stresses that while the project is still in its infancy, it offers a glimpse of a more streamlined future for user tracking and consent management. Anthony contemplates bringing these features into his own applications, highlighting a genuine need for simpler, more reliable privacy solutions.
They sign off on an optimistic note, inviting viewers and listeners to explore the repository, contribute ideas, or just follow the project’s evolution. Christopher underscores his willingness to collaborate, sharing his personal website and GitHub profile for networking or hiring opportunities. With a warm camaraderie reminiscent of their past collaborations, they conclude the discussion, leaving open the possibility of future streams or podcasts to chart “Better Events’” progress toward a fully realized solution.