Live at RenderATL 2023

Episode Description

JavaScript Jam broadcasts live from Render ATL, discussing networking, career building, content creation, and the value of in-person connections in tech.

Episode Summary

In this special live episode of JavaScript Jam recorded at Render ATL in Atlanta, hosts Scott Steinlage, Anthony Campolo, and Ishan Anand are joined by conference host Taylor Desseyn, content creator James Quick, developer Will, Jay Dash, Dev Agrawal, and others for a wide-ranging conversation centered on the power of networking and relationship-building in tech. Taylor, a recruiter by trade, shares his perspective on the current job market, noting that while hiring has slowed from its pandemic-era highs, opportunities still exist for those who are intentional about leveraging their networks. He offers practical advice for conference attendees, like live-tweeting speaker sessions and getting connections into your social media ecosystem rather than just exchanging phone numbers. James Quick discusses how content creation transformed his career from corporate developer advocacy to full-time independent work, emphasizing that storytelling and genuine relationship-building are more valuable than transactional networking. Several participants reflect on the unique dynamic of meeting online connections in person for the first time, agreeing that digital relationships can be meaningful but are deepened significantly through face-to-face interaction. The conversation comes full circle when a recent college graduate asks whether conferences are worth attending for newcomers, and the group affirms the value, pointing to Dev Agrawal as a living example of someone who landed a job through community involvement before even finishing school.

Chapters

00:00:00 - Opening Banter and Introductions at Render ATL

The episode kicks off with Scott broadcasting live from the Render ATL conference floor in Atlanta, joking with co-hosts about the Georgia peach emoji in the conference branding. The crew describes the multi-level venue and the workshop-day atmosphere, with Scott repping his St. Louis Cardinals jersey for the conference's jersey day theme.

After the initial banter, the hosts formally introduce themselves and the JavaScript Jam podcast, explaining that they broadcast live every Wednesday and encouraging listeners to participate. They introduce their roles at Edgio, plug their newsletter, and mention that the latest issue covers Redwood going all-in on React server components. The tone is casual and welcoming, setting the stage for an open-mic style conversation.

00:08:08 - Taylor Desseyn on What Makes Render ATL Special

Taylor Desseyn, one of five hosts for Render ATL and a recruiter from Nashville, introduces himself and shares what sets this conference apart. He highlights how organizer Justin Samuels leans into Atlanta's local culture, from Waffle House vibes to the Georgia peach branding, creating an experience that feels authentically tied to the city rather than generic.

Taylor argues that Render ATL distinguishes itself by prioritizing networking alongside technical content. He observes that many engineers actually get burned out by back-to-back talks and really come to conferences to connect with people. This naturally leads into a discussion about why more recruiters should be attending events like Render, where Taylor notes the industry's failure to play the long game when it comes to meeting candidates where they are.

00:13:34 - The Tech Job Market and Intentional Job Seeking

The conversation shifts to the current macroeconomic landscape in tech hiring. Taylor offers a grounded take from the recruiting trenches, acknowledging that while big tech layoff headlines dominate the news cycle, small and mid-sized companies are still growing and hiring. He frames the current market as a correction rather than a crisis, noting that both companies and job seekers had grown complacent during the pandemic hiring boom.

Taylor emphasizes that intentionality is the key differentiator in this market. Gone are the days of sleepwalking through interviews and collecting multiple offers, he explains. Job seekers now need to research companies, prepare thoroughly, and actively leverage their networks. His summary captures the nuanced reality: things aren't as good as they were during the boom, but they're also not as bleak as the headlines suggest.

00:17:07 - Practical Networking Tips for Conference Attendees

Taylor breaks down what doing a conference correctly looks like, offering tactical advice for attendees. He stresses the importance of getting people into your social media ecosystem rather than just collecting phone numbers, since nobody scrolls through their phone contacts the way they scroll through Twitter or LinkedIn. He also recommends live-tweeting sessions and creating content for speakers as a form of networking that builds rapport organically.

The conversation expands into advice for introverts, with Taylor reminding listeners that everyone at a networking event paid to be there and is open to conversation. He suggests keeping interactions to three to five minutes rather than trying to deliver a lengthy pitch, and notes that in the post-COVID era, people are more eager than ever to connect in person. The consensus is that showing up and being genuinely present matters more than having a polished strategy.

00:22:02 - Building Relationships Online and Cementing Them In Person

Ishan shares his experience of meeting online connections in person for the first time at a recent conference, sparking a discussion about whether real relationships can form digitally. The group agrees that online relationships absolutely can be meaningful, especially when built around shared interests, but that meeting face-to-face adds a dimension that digital communication can't replicate.

Jay Dash joins from beside Scott at the conference and adds his perspective, comparing the dynamic to meeting people through video games versus Zoom. He argues that in-person meetings reveal micro-expressions and nonverbal cues that deepen understanding in ways that text and video calls cannot. Anthony and Ishan note that their own working relationship began online through shared interest in Jamstack before they ever met in person, eventually leading to working at the same company.

00:27:42 - James Quick on In-Person Connections and Dev Rel

James Quick joins the conversation, excited about attending Render ATL for the second year and fresh off the birth of his two-week-old baby. He echoes the theme that conferences are primarily about people, sharing a mentor's philosophy that trust is built through breaking bread together. James explains that in-person interactions allow relationships to reach a depth that social media interactions simply cannot achieve.

The discussion turns to developer relations, with James explaining why genuine connections matter more than sales pitches. He notes that people are far more likely to try products when they have a trusted personal connection at the company. Jay Dash asks how to measure trust in dev rel, and James responds that it comes down to storytelling, converting real experiences into narratives that demonstrate impact rather than just reporting attendance numbers.

00:35:39 - Content Creation, Career Impact, and Doing Conferences Right

James previews his upcoming Render ATL talk about how content creation has shaped his career, from side income to full-time independent work. He emphasizes that overnight success is a myth and that consistency over years is what ultimately pays off. The conversation shifts to how James approaches conferences now as an independent creator, where he focuses on showing up genuinely rather than formally documenting every interaction.

James shares a candid story about attending a poorly organized conference in London that still yielded $25,000 worth of content deals simply because of the relationships he built there. He discusses how sponsored content works best when it aligns with products he already uses and loves, like Cloudinary, and describes his evolving approach to being more selective about partnerships while maintaining authenticity.

00:44:55 - Will, Dev Agrawal, and the Power of Showing Up

Will joins the conversation, sharing that he finally met James Quick in person after years of interacting on Twitter, and reveals that James was instrumental in encouraging him to apply for his job at Auth0. This reinforces the episode's central theme about the tangible career impact of online relationship-building. Will encourages listeners to talk to everyone at conferences without overthinking it.

Dev Agrawal hops in to discuss how attending conferences has changed now that he has a job and company backing, joking that the biggest shift is going from looking for people to buy him dinner to looking for people whose dinner he can pay for. Jay Dash contributes a memorable story about how networking at a Yamaha conference years ago eventually led to meeting Stevie Wonder, illustrating that relationship investments pay off in unpredictable ways.

00:56:37 - Advice for New Grads and Closing Remarks

A recent college graduate from the audience asks whether conferences like Render ATL are worthwhile for someone just starting out. The hosts enthusiastically affirm that they are, pointing to Dev Agrawal as a prime example of someone who secured a job through community involvement before even finishing school. Anthony offers practical advice about having a target list of people and companies to connect with at events.

The episode wraps up with last-minute appearances from Nate Emerson, who announces he was just added as a speaker and will be presenting on cultivating confidence the next morning. Scott delivers closing remarks encouraging everyone to follow JavaScript Jam, sign up for the newsletter, and keep building relationships both online and in person. The hosts tease potential additional live broadcasts from the conference in the coming days.

Transcript

00:00:00 - Scott Steinlage

What's up, everybody? Welcome to JavaScript Jam live at Render ATL. That's right. We are live, folks.

00:00:17 - Anthony Campolo

Where are you at? Are you on the conference floor?

00:00:21 - Scott Steinlage

I am. This place is multileveled, multilayered, multifaceted.

00:00:28 - Anthony Campolo

So how many layers deep have you gone, bro?

00:00:32 - Scott Steinlage

1536. I have been embedded. Oh, yeah, it's good, also.

00:00:44 - Anthony Campolo

What's with the peach?

00:00:47 - Scott Steinlage

The peach? What are you talking about? What's with the peach, dude?

00:00:49 - Ishan Anand

Georgia.

00:00:50 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah.

00:00:51 - Ishan Anand

Georgia peach.

00:00:52 - Scott Steinlage

Never.

00:00:53 - Anthony Campolo

Oh, all right. I need to be educated right now.

00:01:00 - Scott Steinlage

You're missing out, man. That's all good. Yes. The peach is the Georgia peach. Right?

00:01:09 - Anthony Campolo

That's why I thought it was like an emoji typo.

00:01:17 - Scott Steinlage

That's hilarious. That's why if you look at Render ATL's logo, there's a peach in the middle.

00:01:25 - Anthony Campolo

It all makes so much sense.

00:01:27 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. Awesome. Well, this is awesome, man. There's so much going on here right now. There are so many people here. Oh, my gosh. There's just so much. It's really good, though. I mean, they've done a great job organizing it, you know, getting people in. Right. Today is technically day zero. It is workshop day. Tomorrow's day one, and then, you know, so on and so forth. So today's workshops, and it's also Jersey day, so they do have some themes going on. I'm wearing my St. Louis Cardinals jersey, repping STL up in here. Nobody's jumped me yet, so that's good. I've got some...

00:02:23 - Anthony Campolo

Everyone loves St. Louisians all over the place, obviously.

00:02:28 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, I've actually gotten a few comments on the Cardinals jersey, so that's cool. Anyway, good conversation starter. But, yeah, here we are having a great time. And I'm looking forward to an even greater time. I think I want to do, honestly, another live, like tomorrow or the day after, potentially. We'll just see how the schedule turns out.

00:02:52 - Anthony Campolo

Double lives.

00:02:53 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Just because. Here's the thing, guys.

00:02:58 - Anthony Campolo

What else are we going to do?

00:02:59 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, well, we can record lots of podcasts, too. I'm going to be doing plenty of recording here. I've had multiple people say they wanted to record podcasts. Got a super cool spot to do it with a great view from the 69th floor over Atlanta. So I'm really excited for it. Yeah, that's what's happening right here, right now. I think, you know, tomorrow, the day after, we will probably get a lot more speakers on here and involved. So, yeah, definitely looking forward to it. Can't wait for tomorrow. All right, so we have with us Taylor Desseyn, who is a host here at Render ATL. Taylor, what's up, brother? What up?

00:03:56 - Ishan Anand

What up?

00:03:57 - Scott Steinlage

What are you doing right now? I saw you were checking out stage three earlier.

00:04:02 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, I checked out stage three. Anybody who is hanging out at stage three, you have the best MC. Obviously, I'm extremely biased, but I will be emceeing stage three all weekend here at Render. And right now, man, I went back to the room to decompress because your boy's an introvert. Yeah, I need to actually breathe for a second before we, you know, obviously start our dinner festivities this evening.

00:04:34 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, man. Yeah, no, I'm excited for that too. That's at 8 o'clock, so...

00:04:40 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah.

00:04:41 - Scott Steinlage

Hopefully you'll be able to recoup from. From traveling and from saying hello to 5 million people since you stepped off the plane, by the way. Yeah,

00:04:55 - Anthony Campolo

I was going to say, before we dive into things, we didn't really intro who we are.

00:04:59 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, that's true.

00:05:01 - Ishan Anand

Welcome, everyone. This is a very special episode of JavaScript Jam. But Scott, I'll let you... Do you want to do the intro or kick us off, or should I?

00:05:11 - Scott Steinlage

Sure, I'll do it. Why not? Welcome to JavaScript Jam Live. We do this every Wednesday, 12pm Pacific Standard Time. Yes. And that time just happens to be during Render ATL. So here we are live at Render ATL. It is a special episode. We're having a good time. I want to say this real quick. Whether you're a beginner or whether you've been doing this for a very long time, it does not matter. We would love to hear from you. So please. This is an open mic. This is open mic, right? So please feel free to request to come up, ask questions, say facts, comments, whatever, it doesn't matter. We want to hear from you. Yeah. Whether you've been doing development for very little time or a very long time, it doesn't matter. So feel free.

00:06:03 - Ishan Anand

We're a very interactive podcast. We do this every week. Anything JavaScript and web development is on topic, but we're working with Render ATL this week and the past few weeks to highlight the awesome conference that they're throwing. And so we're there live, or actually not me, but Anthony and Scott are there live this week to talk all about Render ATL. But the same rules apply. Just raise your hand at the bottom of the screen and we're happy to bring you to the stage. Scott, keep going. Sorry.

00:06:34 - Scott Steinlage

No, yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up. So, yeah, we can continue if you want.

00:06:41 - Ishan Anand

If you go to javascriptjam.com, that's our website. You can see our archive of past episodes. We've had a lot of great guests. We were at previous conferences like Remix and React Miami. You can sign up for our newsletter and find out about when we're going live, as well as all the interesting things happening in the JavaScript ecosystem. It's right there on JavaScript Jam. And with that, maybe we should introduce ourselves and then get back to Taylor.

00:07:19 - Scott Steinlage

Awesome. Yeah, sure, I'll go ahead and just start. My name is Scott Steinlage. I'm the technical community manager here at Edgio and co-host of JavaScript Jam. Yeah, whoever wants to go next, feel free.

00:07:35 - Ishan Anand

Yeah, I'm Ishan Anand. I'm VP of Product at Edgio, and Anthony, I'll hand it over to you.

00:07:41 - Scott Steinlage

Hello.

00:07:41 - Anthony Campolo

I am a developer advocate at Edgio, and I pinned the latest issue of said newsletter to the Jumbotron for anyone who wants to check it out. It was a good topic today. Redwood has gone all in on React Server Components, which is exciting because we cannot stop talking about React Server Components, but we will probably hit on that at some point within this discussion. But I'll turn it back to Scott.

00:08:08 - Scott Steinlage

Awesome. Cool. All right, folks, well, I guess we can dive a little bit in. Taylor, you want to say who you are and what you're doing here at the conference? Maybe. I don't know. That might be a good one.

00:08:21 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah. Yeah. So for those of you, again, my name is Taylor Desseyn. I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I am one of your five hosts for Render ATL this year. We did a walkthrough of the facilities. It is going to be lit, as the kids say. And I've been, believe it or not, I'm a recruiter. I'm really passionate about engineers, and I've been recruiting engineers now for the last, I'd say, probably seven, eight years of my career, and really passionate about building community in the tech ecosystem and, you know, just happy to be here.

00:08:59 - Scott Steinlage

Awesome. Thanks for sharing that, man. Appreciate it. So what, what's...

00:09:05 - Jay Dash

What's...

00:09:06 - Scott Steinlage

Taylor, you've been to like a ton of conferences. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you hit up even more than I have in the last, like, month and a half. You've been to like probably five or six in the last month and a half. I've been to three. So anyway, you're all over the place. What makes Render ATL different? What makes you most excited about this? Yeah, just what are some things that you've really been looking forward to with this?

00:09:36 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, I mean, so I grew up in South Carolina, actually Columbia, so about three and a half hours up the road from Atlanta. And so, you know, I came to Atlanta a lot growing up. And, you know, I think one thing that Justin Samuels and his team do... So I was blessed to actually be an ambassador last year, and I actually got to speak at Render last year and then come back this year as a host. And, you know, one of the cool things I really like about what Justin does is he leans into the culture of Atlanta.

00:10:08 - Scott Steinlage

Right.

00:10:08 - Jay Dash

And I think.

00:10:10 - Taylor Desseyn

I think for conference organizers and speakers, you know, I think React Miami does a great job. Gabe and Michelle and the G2i crew do a great job too. They lean into Miami, right? You know, the swag they had with React Miami's palm trees, right? The swag here is like, you know, it just feels like Atlanta.

00:10:26 - Scott Steinlage

Right.

00:10:27 - Taylor Desseyn

The Georgia peach. You know, I know the first year they did a lot of Waffle House kind of vibes. It's really cool. And so, you know, I think leaning into the city, leaning into the culture... You know, while this is obviously a conference where you can learn a ton, it's really a conference that, in my opinion, is focused a little bit more on networking than normal. I've seen a lot of tweets lately. I've had a lot of conversations with engineers that, you know, they almost get burned out by the talks, right? It's just so much content coming at you all day that a lot of these engineers, at least that I've talked to, really just want to network.

00:11:05 - Scott Steinlage

Right.

00:11:05 - Taylor Desseyn

They just want to hang out, do stuff like this, right? And I think Render really gives you that option. Yes, there's workshops going on right now, but, you know, I just finished eating my face with wings and hanging out with like 20 people, right? And, you know, I know there's a lot of events going around the city throughout the week. And so, you know, while this is a tech conference first, I think it's very, very close to a networking event second. And I really just think that's what makes this conference so powerful, you know,

00:11:37 - Ishan Anand

Being somebody in recruiting, do you want to just talk about the overlap between the value of these conferences and especially networking and recruiting?

00:11:48 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, recruiters need to get their shit together because, you know, just between all of us girls on this call right now, like, there's just none of us here. And if there is, I haven't met him yet. I have not seen any recruiters sponsoring booths. And I just think, you know, I've been fascinated. I've been kind of watching the tech ecosystem since COVID just due to my job and kind of, you know, focusing more on community building because networking is so powerful. And we always talk about not being able to find enough candidates, enough qualified candidates, let alone the diversity that really needs to come through in tech that just isn't there sometimes. And you have to show up at events like this. I think this is where recruiters... I don't know why there aren't more recruiters here. Well, I do know why. It's because we don't play the long game. And I think, you know, every single interaction here that you make could potentially benefit your career moving forward. And I think people don't realize that.

00:12:50 - Jay Dash

Right.

00:12:50 - Taylor Desseyn

It just takes one conversation with one person at this event that can completely transform your career. And so, you know, again, I think networking is paramount to everything you do throughout your professional career. And this is really kind of the birthplace of it right here, with how many amazing individuals, speakers, nonspeakers, you know, attendees... And you're meeting people where they're at, which is so important, which unfortunately a lot of recruiting companies do not do.

00:13:18 - Ishan Anand

Yeah, I mean, I can speak personally, having hired people or tried to hire people, both from people I met at conferences. It's a hugely valuable way to network. Sounds like we had somebody come to the stage who has a question or a comment.

00:13:34 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah, we got perspective here. What's up, man?

00:13:42 - Ishan Anand

Oh, looks like he went back to being

00:13:43 - Anthony Campolo

a listener, so good old Spaces.

00:13:47 - Taylor Desseyn

Thank you.

00:13:47 - Scott Steinlage

Thank you for that perspective. Appreciate it.

00:13:50 - Taylor Desseyn

We...

00:13:51 - Ishan Anand

We broke the Internet. So, you know, maybe you want to give us a sense of what you're seeing in general in this current macroeconomic environment, given where you sit in the ecosystem. What are you seeing is happening? Because obviously there's a set of headlines about what's happening in the tech ecosystem. Maybe you can give us a sense of what's really happening from the trenches.

00:14:15 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, I think so. When it comes to the trenches and kind of what's going on, big tech is obviously eating up the headlines. Right. And that makes sense, right? I mean, you're going to get clicks on an article because you got to think about it, right? I'm fascinated with marketing and content and getting people to click on things on the Internet. So ultimately, you know, if you say Microsoft lays off 10,000 people and then you say, hey, like small to midsized companies are still growing, who do you think's gonna click that, or like what do you think's gonna drive clicks?

00:14:48 - Anthony Campolo

Right?

00:14:49 - Taylor Desseyn

It's the Microsoft laying off 10,000 people headline. And so, while I understand that people are still hiring now, it's slow, right? Like, I mean a lot of my content that I put out, I'm not gonna sit here as a recruiter of engineers in tech to be like, yeah, guys, gals, everything's fine, like the market's great, you know, we're ripping again. No, we're not. We're just not. But I do have to say that I think leveraging your network now more than ever is really going to come in handy because people are still hiring, but people are hiring more intentionally now, right? I've talked about this a lot with my content. You could sleepwalk through interviews the last few years and get yourself multiple offers. You can't do that anymore, right? And so it's not as easy. But jobs are still out there, right? People are still looking for jobs, people are still getting jobs. People are still interviewing. But the intentionality has got to be there. And I think that's the biggest difference, right? People are like, well, how come jobs aren't coming to me? Well, they're not because there's not many jobs out there.

00:15:46 - Taylor Desseyn

But if you leverage your network and use intentionality, you will find a job. So to answer your question, in summary, it's not as good as it was, but it's not as bad as it seems.

00:15:54 - Anthony Campolo

I appreciate this perspective and we've talked about this on previous episodes. There's this question of like, should we still tell people to get into tech or not? And it's like, of course we should, but we should let them know that also things are on a downturn. That doesn't mean there's no jobs, but it means you got to work a little harder.

00:16:12 - Taylor Desseyn

100%. 100%. And the problem is, over the last few years, we've gotten lazy. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. Companies have gotten lazy, companies overhired. We're obviously seeing that right now, the correction, right? Job seekers have become lazy. We can just show up. We don't have to research the company, we don't have to research the hiring managers. We can just sleepwalk through it and get five offers that are maybe 50, 60 to 100K more than what we were getting. You can't do that anymore. The landscape's changed. Is it bad? I wouldn't say it's bad. It's just not as good as it was. But that's okay because I think we're leveling out now. And again, if you show up to these things like Render and these conferences and you are intentional about it... I actually did a live with my podcast on Tuesday to talk about if you are doing Render, or any conference, correctly, you should be absolutely fucking exhausted by the end of it.

00:17:07 - Ishan Anand

So what is, you want to get a little more tangible? What is doing it correctly look like?

00:17:12 - Anthony Campolo

Also, what's the name of your podcast?

00:17:14 - Taylor Desseyn

Oh yeah, yeah. So Guidance Counselor 2.0. I do it live every morning. So yeah, feel free to check that out. I'm on Spotify, yada yada. So the intentionality, what that looks like when going to a conference, is actually going up to people, meeting people, shaking their hands, engaging in conversation, getting them in your ecosystem. I can't stress enough, trying to get people in your ecosystem is the biggest part of conferences that people miss out on, right? And when I say ecosystem, I mean social media. I don't know how many of us meet somebody, ask that person for their phone number, it goes in their phone book. How many of y'all peruse your phone contacts like you do Twitter? Nobody.

00:18:03 - Ishan Anand

No.

00:18:03 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, nobody, right? So I've really been observant of that behavior for the last few years. And so now I don't ask for anybody's phone number anymore. All I ask is, hey, what's your LinkedIn? What's your Twitter? Right? Like, what's your Instagram? What is your favorite platform? Because what I use social media for is constant check-ins for people that I meet. And so if you're doing it correctly, you're going to the sessions, you're networking with the speakers. I'm really big on creating content for the speakers as a form of networking, right? A lot of people are over here just writing things down in their own notebooks and taking that data and that knowledge with them, and that's it. I think you should be live tweeting, threading every single speaker you go to, creating content for them. Because I will tell you this, if you show up to stage three over the next two days and take pictures of me or maybe say one of my funny dad jokes that I'm probably going to absolutely bomb, and you come up to me afterwards, I'm going to laugh it up with you because you've developed a sense of rapport with me.

00:19:07 - Taylor Desseyn

And so I think that's a tip. Going to the after-parties, being there, showing up, not getting too sloppy, but still having fun. I think if you are running and gunning from morning till night and really trying to get as many people in your ecosystem as possible, you should be pretty tired at the end of this thing.

00:19:25 - Ishan Anand

That's really great advice. You know, live tweeting is something that's really easy to do. You just, you know, take a photo of your favorite slide that the speaker's talking about, tag them, and put a quote out, the most insightful thing you heard. How about, you know, when you're going to, especially with, I don't want to stereotype too much, but you know, engineers tend to be introverted. So, you know, in an after-party or other scenario, you're like going up and meeting people. Give conversation starters or tips for people about how to do that.

00:20:00 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah, I mean, listen, trying to talk to strangers as an introvert... So I'm an introvert, right? I'm hiding in my room from everybody right now. And so I get that. I want to take some pressure off of the individuals listening today. First off, if people show up to a networking event, they want to network, right? Like, yeah, they paid for the ticket. They are here, they are open to it. Maybe they don't want to, but they are open to networking, right? And so take that to your advantage, right? You're not trying to sell anybody anything. You're just going to go up and start a conversation. Next thing, take the pressure off yourself. You don't need to have a 30-minute dialogue with anybody. I've actually had people come to me like, Taylor, I'm trying to get my 30-minute elevator pitch down. I'm like, is the elevator broken? Like, why are we developing a 30-minute elevator pitch to meet a stranger? Listen, three to five minutes, be witty, be funny, ask a few questions, shake their hand, say, hey, I'll see you around later, and you probably will.

00:21:04 - Taylor Desseyn

And listen, they're totally fine with going back to drinking their drink and talking to the other person. But at the end of the day, what I've noticed here, and what I've really actually noticed with people's behaviors over the last year coming back out of COVID, is that people are more willing now to talk to people and be in fellowship with people more than I've ever seen. Because there's just such a desperation to be back in community, in person. So you really need to leverage that

00:21:25 - Scott Steinlage

and take advantage of that right now.

00:21:28 - Ishan Anand

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it definitely feels like one of the things that people are looking for is that connection and that's why they're going to the conference.

00:21:37 - Taylor Desseyn

Oh, yeah. I mean, I've given out more hugs probably today than I have in a long time because people are just so jacked up to be with each other.

00:21:45 - Ishan Anand

Oh, yeah. And I've had this experience where, you know, I went to a conference recently and I suddenly realized we'd never met in person before. We had entirely met only online.

00:21:57 - Jay Dash

Yeah.

00:21:57 - Ishan Anand

And we suddenly realized we were acting like, wow, this is just so great to actually hang out.

00:22:02 - Taylor Desseyn

So I want to interrupt you, so let's talk about that for a second because I think that's a fascinating behavior that I talk about a lot. And I think people are so sick and tired of hearing me talk about that that I want you to dig into that. What would you say to people who are like, you can't build relationships online? Because you just said you obviously can, because getting together in person just really cements it. But like, what are your thoughts on that? Like, can you...

00:22:31 - Ishan Anand

I think you can. Yeah, I think you totally can. It's really like any type of familiarity. So actually I'm going to say you can and you can't. So I'll give you some detail. So why you can't... So I was remote before the pandemic. The company I was at before that got acquired by Edgio was remote first a couple years before. But even before that, we would have the team come together in, you know, on-site meetings a couple times a year because there's certain types of conversations and things you want to get done, or pushing out a release, that's better to do in person.

00:23:14 - Taylor Desseyn

For sure.

00:23:14 - Ishan Anand

You don't have the latency and overhead, and there's certain conversations, getting people in a room, talking over each other and having really animated conversations, it's just harder to do in a Zoom chat and get everyone really engaged. And so those are great for that. And the other thing it built was social capital, and you build up that social capital, and you leverage that social capital in the remote sessions in between those on-sites. So there's definitely some value there. That being said, so this is the you can... I think it's familiarity. I think it also helps if there's alignment. It's hard to do with, you know, teams or folks you may disagree with, but when you're very aligned, it's a lot easier.

00:23:56 - Anthony Campolo

I think that you and I are proof of this, that we built our relationship online. We met in person to solidify, as you say, but we were aligned over Jamstack. We had a shared interest. We had podcasts that we had listened to and been on together, and it gave us a space to build that relationship over time and then meet in person, and then we end up working together at the same company.

00:24:20 - Ishan Anand

Yeah, so that's.

00:24:21 - Taylor Desseyn

That.

00:24:21 - Ishan Anand

I think that's actually a better word than alignment. It's shared interests.

00:24:25 - Taylor Desseyn

I love that.

00:24:26 - Ishan Anand

So, yeah.

00:24:27 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah.

00:24:27 - Taylor Desseyn

That's awesome. Yeah. And then, like I said, I mean, I've been fascinated with that behavior. You know, as a recruiter and being at home so much, and just leveraging Twitter, leveraging LinkedIn and building relationships, meeting people in person has really, really just cemented it. But, you know, building a relationship online, you don't have necessarily the awkward, who are you? What do you do? You kind of just dive into it, which has been really, really nice, especially at Render, because there's a lot of people I haven't met yet that I'm meeting here, and it's just a breath of fresh air.

00:25:00 - Ishan Anand

I think we have Jay Dash, who, you know, was a past speaker at our virtual summit, gave a great talk, just come up as a speaker. Did you want to add something or have a different question or topic?

00:25:13 - Jay Dash

Man, I just love listening to this conversation. Man, this is awesome. Can everybody hear me?

00:25:19 - Ishan Anand

Yes, we can hear you.

00:25:20 - Will

Yeah.

00:25:23 - Jay Dash

In terms of meeting people, I would like to add to that conversation and say, yes, you can meet people and form relationships online. You can also meet people in person, and it is just a very, very different thing. I think that we just need to draw the line. Those differences are the same as when you meet people playing video games versus only meeting people on Zoom. You have a particular relationship, but when you meet them again in person, and I don't know if anybody can relate, it's almost like meeting them for the first time again, because there are certain barriers that you have online that you can't replicate from being in person. It's like, oh, man, I can reach out and touch you, which is why the hugs feel different.

00:26:05 - Anthony Campolo

[unclear].

00:26:06 - Jay Dash

Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. That's why that movie... I don't know if you guys remember the movie Surrogates with Bruce Willis. It can't get like that. We can't get there. Like, we could if we wanted to, but I think we realized in a post-COVID society, we can't. Like, we have to touch each other. We have to see each other. I have to be able to understand your microexpressions when I'm explaining an idea to you, because those communicate more to me than our actual online chat or conversation or a text could ever serve. So as many platforms as are out there, whether it's Slack or Teams or all that stuff, we can share in a very different way. In no way in real life can I show you a GIF or a meme or a gif, for those that want to battle how you pronounce that word. There's no way I can do that in person. And so it's just a different level and a different form of communication, but we need both.

00:27:06 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. That's so good, man. By the way, Jay Dash is sitting here right next to me, so we are in person, y'all.

00:27:13 - Anthony Campolo

All.

00:27:13 - Scott Steinlage

It's a good time.

00:27:14 - Ishan Anand

Oh, awesome.

00:27:14 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah.

00:27:15 - Ishan Anand

Speaking of in person.

00:27:16 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:27:18 - Jay Dash

I wish y'all could see this live because, like, I'm on my phone and I'm next to him, but I just wanted to be close to him while I was talking. You know what I'm saying?

00:27:29 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah.

00:27:30 - Jay Dash

He took a pic already. We got one. We're good.

00:27:32 - Scott Steinlage

We did, Yeah. I'll tweet it real quick. Yes, sir.

00:27:41 - Ishan Anand

I think we had Jamie come up as well.

00:27:47 - Anthony Campolo

James, to the queue, to the Quick.

00:27:50 - Ishan Anand

Oh, James. James Quick. I didn't... There we go.

00:27:52 - James Quick

I was like. I was like, who is Jamie?

00:27:56 - Scott Steinlage

No, no.

00:27:56 - James Quick

What's up, everybody?

00:28:00 - Anthony Campolo

What's up, man?

00:28:01 - Scott Steinlage

How you doing? How's it going?

00:28:02 - James Quick

Where are y' all sitting, by the way?

00:28:07 - Scott Steinlage

We are. I saw you walk by, I think, earlier, but we're right next to registration for the workshops today on the seventh floor there. Okay.

00:28:15 - James Quick

Nice.

00:28:17 - Scott Steinlage

Cool.

00:28:17 - James Quick

Speaking of in person, can't wait to see everybody. Taylor and I got to get lunch together, so I can't wait to see everybody else here.

00:28:24 - Scott Steinlage

Did you guys eat your wings?

00:28:25 - James Quick

We did, yeah.

00:28:27 - Taylor Desseyn

It was so good.

00:28:29 - Scott Steinlage

What's that from, y'all? "Wingies. I want wingies."

00:28:33 - James Quick

I don't know. What is that from anybody?

00:28:35 - Scott Steinlage

Anybody? Oh, my gosh. Chris Farley. Come on.

00:28:38 - Jay Dash

Ah, okay.

00:28:40 - Anthony Campolo

All I know is man down by the river.

00:28:43 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, that too. Yeah. So, James, brother, what's up with you, man? What brings you to Render ATL? Why here? What's the excitement all about, man? You got a baby too. Wait, I mean, that's important news there. That's awesome.

00:29:02 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah.

00:29:03 - Ishan Anand

Oh, congrats.

00:29:04 - James Quick

Thank you. I want to clarify for everyone, the baby is two weeks old tomorrow. So I want to clarify that my wife has help. The baby's very young. Her parents and her grandmother are in town. So I didn't just, like...

00:29:17 - Anthony Campolo

But

00:29:19 - James Quick

I've wanted to do Render for like two years. Like the first Render, I had ridiculous FOMO. Like I saw pictures and videos and stuff and I was like, I gotta be there next year. And then I spoke last year, so it was a no-brainer when Justin asked me to come back this year. There was nothing that could keep me from making it here. I was gonna do it, so super excited about it.

00:29:36 - Jay Dash

It was gonna be like, yo, I saw the pictures from last year from Render and, you know, got this baby. So we had to bring the baby. We had the baby at Render this year.

00:29:48 - Scott Steinlage

You know, I just knew that's where

00:29:52 - Jay Dash

This was going, bro. That would have been an incredible story.

00:29:55 - James Quick

It would be. We didn't quite make it there yet, but probably.

00:29:58 - Scott Steinlage

And the baby's name is Peach.

00:30:01 - James Quick

That's right.

00:30:02 - Scott Steinlage

The baby's name is Peach. Yeah. No way. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, congratulations, man. I got three months at home as well, so I feel you.

00:30:10 - James Quick

Nice. Congrats.

00:30:13 - Scott Steinlage

So, yeah. Awesome. So what do you, what are you most excited about?

00:30:19 - James Quick

I mean, it's always the people. I guess it's really true for me at any conference. And we were talking about, just when I joined, like, in-person connections and stuff. And I know a lot of people on social media.

00:30:33 - Scott Steinlage

Right.

00:30:34 - James Quick

But there's just a different evolution of relationships and trust that you have in people when you get to hang out with people in person. This is not quite exactly my mentality because it's not like I think drinking should be the answer to everything, but a mentor of mine early on at Microsoft said that he didn't trust people until he had drinks with them. And again, it doesn't need to be drinking specifically, but just having that in-person, face-to-face time to kind of really get to know people.

00:30:58 - Anthony Campolo

Is breaking bread another way to phrase that?

00:31:01 - James Quick

Breaking bread, that's a little safer and more inclusive, I think. But yeah, that's what it's all about. The speaker lineup is obviously ridiculous. It's super, super cool to be associated with all the other names that are on the speaking list, but also just all the people that I get to hang out with that I've interacted with online. What's really cool for me is seeing people say, like, hey, I watched your YouTube video on this topic and it really helped me learn something in JavaScript. That sort of stuff is super, super, super, super special, you know, that

00:31:30 - Jay Dash

I want to jump on. I gotta jump on that. I've watched your videos as well and learned some things about JavaScript too.

00:31:37 - Taylor Desseyn

James.

00:31:38 - Jay Dash

So very nice to meet you on Twitter, but I had a question. I wanted to dive in on what you said. Do you feel like it's better to have conversations in person because you can gauge people's intentions? I always think that at a base level it's always around intentionality. And so it's all like, for people that connect with people in person, it's like, oh, is this person just trying to get some ulterior motive? Or is this person just really trying to build cool things? Or is this just a really nice person to talk to, or, you know, it makes working with people easier. Do you feel that way when meeting people in person versus online?

00:32:16 - James Quick

I think I definitely pick up on that. You can kind of see, I think, when you interact with people, whether the things they say feel genuine or if they kind of try to hype people up or be really excited to see you and it doesn't feel genuine. So I think I can definitely pick up on that stuff and it definitely plays a factor, but it's not something... I don't go into an in-person meeting for the first time with skepticism. So I'm not looking to disprove my skepticism. I think it's more just like taking knowing someone on Twitter to a slightly deeper level by being there in person. And some of it is like, you only have so much context for what people do and why. So, again, not necessarily skepticism of what they do, but details of what they're interested in and what they like and what you could potentially bond over. You just don't get all the way there in a 240, or whatever the limit is now, tweet. So that's the kind of thing that I think is just next level where, you know, six months from now, I'm working on something, and I remember, oh, I had this conversation with someone at a conference, and they were doing this, which is relevant to what I'm doing, or they work at a company that has a product I might want to try.

00:33:21 - James Quick

Like, that's why DevRel is so important, because I'm so much more likely to try products that I have a connection to.

00:33:27 - Jay Dash

Right?

00:33:27 - James Quick

Like, I have someone that I trust, that I respect their opinions, and I know that they could potentially help me onboard to a product or whatever. It's hard to get to that level of depth. So there's definitely a little bit of kind of proving that people are in it to be genuine. I think you can tell the opposite of that pretty quickly and kind of shut down, at least in your head, those conversations. But for me, it's more about the optimism of just being able to go deeper than disproving the pessimistic side of questions.

00:33:59 - Jay Dash

Man, I appreciate that insight, man, because I got to a point, I think, after the pandemic where I kind of felt like everybody was trying to sell me something. And so I have this constant, like, okay, what is this person really trying to sell me? And it's good to hear that perspective just because, you know, I've been feeling a little bit pessimistic in that way. So I appreciate that.

00:34:22 - James Quick

Yeah, well, I talk a lot about DevRel. That's like the majority of my career. And DevRel is a really hard thing to track and understand because a lot of departments are looking to see dollar ROI, and that sort of stuff is not directly impacted, oftentimes, by us just showing up at a conference. But when you actually provide value to people, you have genuine conversations, then if you're representing a company, when they think of that company, they think of you or they think of, I need an option to solve this problem. That's a company that I think about because of that genuine interaction with a person that represented that company. So those are those long-term things that you don't sell first. Like, any company that I work at, that's not going to be the conversation that I start with. That's going to be like, when you get to that point, if it makes sense for you, we can have that conversation. But it's never going to be my leading thing. It's more just like we're just people, we're hanging out, we're learning, we're enjoying the time and the events and all that kind of stuff.

00:35:22 - James Quick

And if it leads to something more work-related, great. If not, I just had a good time and built a deeper relationship. So, yeah, I think to your point, definitely having a little bit of the awareness of what people's intentions are can definitely weed out some conversations early in the process.

00:35:39 - Jay Dash

I do. I have one more question and then I'll leave you alone, I promise. How do you measure trust? How do you show it? Because like you said, it's a really hard thing. It's one thing to say I sold this much, but your job as DevRel is you're building trust between people and companies. And so what is the best way to measure that, in your opinion?

00:36:00 - James Quick

Yeah, so it's all about storytelling. And I talk about this a lot with people that are interviewing and looking for jobs and trying to sell themselves to companies to get hired. And most people that I work with struggle to be able to do that in a confident way. They use the word just as an example. I just built this thing, I just worked with a team, I just blah, blah, blah, and they kind of diminish what they've done. And so a lot of times, if you think about DevRel and people going to conferences, they come back and they say there were a thousand people at the conference, I gave a talk, and a hundred people showed up to the talk, and whatever. And those are easy metrics, but they don't actually tell much of a story. So being able to convert those real, true experiences into storytelling that have impact and show impact is the difference. And this is still not an easy thing to track compared to dollars in revenue. But what you can say is, I had a conversation with someone, they asked very detailed questions about our product, and I followed up with them because they wanted to.

00:37:00 - James Quick

We had this conversation. You never know, like, in six months you may be able to directly align that conversation with dollars, right? They may sign a contract to use a product or whatever later on down the road. So I think another thing that's really valuable, again from a DevRel perspective, is pulling in feedback as you explain your product to somebody and they ask questions of things that you don't include, or features that you don't have, or features that you do have that they say other competitors don't have. Being able to tangibly record that feedback and then tangibly go and pass that to product teams is exponentially valuable because DevRel, developer advocates, are typically the most front-facing people that companies have for developers, right? Like when people outside of a company think about a product from a developer perspective, most likely what they're going to think about is the person that they interacted with in person at a conference. And a lot of the time it's developer advocates that are doing that. So it's all about storytelling. It's all about taking those little nuggets and really making them be a big deal.

00:37:58 - James Quick

Because otherwise people don't get it when you just say there were a thousand people at a conference. So you have to go and fill in those gaps and make it super, super clear. Here are the really impactful conversations and

00:38:07 - Taylor Desseyn

here's why.

00:38:09 - Jay Dash

I'm looking for the money emoji and it doesn't exist here. That comment was like at least a few hundred thousand dollars.

00:38:17 - Scott Steinlage

I appreciate that, right? That's awesome. Thanks, James. Appreciate you sharing that. You know, actually, if you don't mind, I'd like to go just a tiny bit deeper on that. What do you do while at these conferences? So now that you're in business for yourself, I mean, obviously before you were doing DevRel for another company prior to working for yourself, but versus what you did at that company versus what you're doing now, you're still doing DevRel, right? But what do you do when you go to a conference to prepare yourself, or during the conference, to prepare yourself to create this document or whatever it might be to show the return on the investment, either to yourself now or to the company that you're contracted with, or where you used to work prior there at PlanetScale? Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:24 - James Quick

It's funny, I have like all these opinions and advice, and I also will say I'm not the most organized person. So when I talk about the storytelling part and taking the time to tell that story, it's not the thing that I'm really good about, specifically from a time perspective.

00:39:38 - Anthony Campolo

You're a storyteller for a living, bro.

00:39:39 - Jay Dash

What are you talking about?

00:39:40 - James Quick

But, yeah, when you get down to documentation, it feels like a hassle, and it is, right? It's more work than just being there and showing up.

00:39:50 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah.

00:39:50 - James Quick

Like, especially now, I don't go into an event with anything specific really in mind, other than I'm going to talk to as many people as I possibly can, and I'm going to spend as much time as I can, do it without sacrificing health and too much sleep. I'm going to be out there. I'm going to do as many things as I possibly can. Because all the people here, from attendees to staff to other speakers to sponsors, those are relationships that you just never know when they're going to come in. And to give you an example of this, there was a shitshow of a conference, to be quite honest, last year in November in London.

00:40:26 - Scott Steinlage

I think we all know. People know where I'm going. Yeah.

00:40:29 - James Quick

So it's an absolute shitshow from a lot of perspectives. But there was an amazing set of sponsors, there was an amazing set of speakers, an amazing amount of networking opportunities, and I've made like $25,000 worth of content from connections that I made just from that conference. And I knew going into this, like, there's more details about not getting paid back from the conference, but I knew it was worth my money to go to that conference because of the relationships that I would be able to build. But I didn't go in trying to close a deal. I just went in and was myself. And I think in some ways I have a little bit of an advantage because I'm probably more outgoing than a lot of people are. A lot of people identify themselves as introverts. I identify myself primarily... Taylor's laughing because he's an introvert, but does the best he can, which is really amazing. But I'm probably more naturally extroverted. So I just go, and I'm like, I'm there. I'm going to take part in everything that I can. I'm going to have conversations, I'm going to sit down with people, and I'm going to learn more about them.

00:41:25 - James Quick

And you never know what that's going to lead to. And so for me, especially right now, it's not a formal documentation thing. It's me just showing up, but most importantly, showing up in a genuine way. Again, going back to, I'm not selling anything to anybody first, but if it comes up that a sponsor is looking for someone to create YouTube content, I'm certainly going to throw that in there because it's a natural fit. But it's not something I'm going to lead with from the beginning.

00:41:49 - Scott Steinlage

So if you don't mind, I don't mean to throw you, like, on the spot here. Like, you can totally pass on this. It's okay. Well, say I'm. Say I'm a company that you're wanting to do some work for, or do you typically just, like, let companies come to you because at this point you have all this clout? But, you know, do you actively go after other companies now?

00:42:14 - James Quick

Mostly, no. And I am in a fairly privileged position. I still have more requests to do sponsored content than I can take on. Again, that's a very fortunate position to be in. So that's great. Um, but one of the things that I want to start getting a little bit better at is being a little pickier. Not that I haven't enjoyed this stuff that I've done, but making sure that it's more and more tailored to fit the audience that I have and is going to be a good fit for the sponsor. But then also, I like the idea of doing these bigger ongoing relationships with companies that I'm going to be using anyway. And I was actually talking to Colby Fayock earlier. So Cloudinary is a product that I've used for years. I love Cloudinary. I've done sponsored content with Cloudinary. I still use Cloudinary to this day. That's the sort of thing that's really fun because it's stuff that I would kind of already be doing, but I get to get paid for it, to kind of prioritize the time to release content on a certain topic. So for the most part, people reach out to me.

00:43:08 - James Quick

Again, a pretty privileged position to be in, but I do feel like I have more of an opportunity to reach out to specific companies that I already am a big fan of and kind of make that pitch. So that's a continually evolving process of prioritizing my time and making sure, one, it makes good money. Two, it's stuff that I really enjoy first and foremost. And I want to make good money. Why would we not? And three, it's going to be a mutually beneficial relationship.

00:43:41 - Scott Steinlage

Awesome. Yeah, yeah. Do.

00:43:44 - Ishan Anand

Do you want to just tell people? Because I think it's an interesting seg into, you know, what your talk is about, which is about content creation and how that... Do you want to give people like a preview of what you'll be talking about? Yeah.

00:43:56 - James Quick

So anybody who's listening who's in Atlanta, make sure to stop by. I think it's 4 o'clock on Friday afternoon. The talk is about the impact that content creation has had on my career. And fun fact, it's had a pretty big impact considering it's what I do full time for a living. But from job opportunities to making side income to now working full time, the ups and downs, the background of my story as a content creator, what I've been through over years of doing this... And people see the overnight success, quote unquote, and the reality is that never exists. Like no musician is an overnight success, no artist, no content creator. They've been doing this stuff probably for years. And that consistency is really, really key. So it's my learnings of doing content in my career. It's talking about the impact that it's had for me, the beautiful things that it's had for me, and the ability for me now to do what I was already doing and what I love full time. And I always focus this... Not that it's my number one priority, but I get to make good money while also doing the stuff that I already love.

00:44:54 - Jay Dash

So.

00:45:00 - Ishan Anand

Very cool. Tune in for that. It looks like we had somebody else come up to speak the fresh print.

00:45:07 - Anthony Campolo

Looks like JavaScript Will himself.

00:45:10 - Scott Steinlage

Will. I am.

00:45:13 - Will

It is Will, everybody.

00:45:18 - Scott Steinlage

Yo, what up?

00:45:18 - James Quick

Yo, yo.

00:45:19 - Ishan Anand

Welcome to JavaScript Jam.

00:45:22 - Will

Thank you. Yeah, I'm just here, no cap, in ATL trying to, you know, show some rizz, on God.

00:45:35 - Anthony Campolo

Just vibing. Right?

00:45:36 - Will

Yeah, that was my attempt at Gen Z slang. But yeah, you know, I'm at Render. It's been fun. Scott has the greatest hotel room I've ever seen.

00:45:53 - Scott Steinlage

They gave me the upgrade. Yeah, that's true. I showed him last night. He thought it was pretty cool. I thought it was way, way cool. So I'm excited. We're gonna record some really cool podcasts in there. Give me one.

00:46:07 - Will

Yeah, man. But it's been great, like, everyone's here. Like James... Me and James have known each other through Twitter for years. Finally met like a couple of hours ago. So that was, like, you know, really... first time. Yeah, first time ever, honestly. And, you know, like I told James earlier, he's one of the reasons that I actually even work at Auth0. It was a big push, encouragement, that came from him because I was scared to even apply. That's super cool, you know, so I appreciate it. I'm glad to finally meet someone who has had such a big impact on my career and family. And it's been a lot of stuff like that happening at Render, so I'm glad that I made it.

00:46:55 - James Quick

Great.

00:46:55 - Ishan Anand

I mean, that brings us back to when we opened with Taylor about the importance of networking for recruiting and hiring.

00:47:05 - Will

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

00:47:06 - Scott Steinlage

Definitely covered some good stuff on it. Go ahead. Sorry.

00:47:10 - Will

Yeah, so anyone who's listening and who's here, everyone's here. No one came here to not talk, right? Like, no one paid all this money and flights, and no one came here not to talk, right? So you can almost talk to, like, 100 of the people here and just get to know as many people as possible, and you never know what could happen. Like, when I stream, when I was showing up in James Quick streams, I never knew that later on we'd be working at the same company, right? It's just something that ended up happening, right? So, you know, talk to people, get to know them, and get to know them as humans, right? Don't be like, hey, I'm looking for a job. Just talk. Ask them what they're doing. And you never know where that could possibly lead. But don't be afraid to talk to people. We're all...

00:48:16 - Scott Steinlage

Oh, you cut out, Will.

00:48:19 - Ishan Anand

We're all... Yeah, it cut out for me. I thought it was just on my end. I thought it was a Twitter Spaces bug.

00:48:27 - Scott Steinlage

I mean, it could have been very easily.

00:48:29 - Will

What's the last thing y' all heard?

00:48:33 - Scott Steinlage

Probably just the last two seconds got cut off. I think you're good, though.

00:48:36 - Will

Okay.

00:48:37 - Anthony Campolo

I think we got the gist.

00:48:39 - Will

Okay, cool.

00:48:44 - Ishan Anand

So.

00:48:45 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, go ahead.

00:48:46 - Ishan Anand

Oh, go ahead, Scott.

00:48:49 - Scott Steinlage

Please feel free.

00:48:50 - Anthony Campolo

You should both talk at the same time.

00:48:52 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah.

00:48:53 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah.

00:48:58 - Ishan Anand

So I was gonna ask... I was gonna ask Will just, or anybody else, you know, today's workshop day.

00:49:05 - Anthony Campolo

I completely agree with everything that

00:49:09 - Taylor Desseyn

Will.

00:49:09 - Jay Dash

Nice to meet you. And it's so funny how everything that was said by James and by Will applies to not just technology, but any other industry. I had some success in the music industry, and it's the same concepts, man. It's like anytime you go to an event, you're not necessarily looking for what this will be now. I'm not looking for a job right now. Making a deposit on investment into my network that'll pay off later. Funny story, I was endorsed by Yamaha when I was a way, way younger kid. I was playing with a band and Yamaha asked me to perform at this conference called NAMM. And I was like, okay, cool. So I went and I played at the conference and, you know, I ended up keeping in contact with a guy that I met from Yamaha. And then years and years later, he was like, hey, man, I want you to stay after [unclear]. And then he introduced me to Stevie Wonder, which was probably the coolest moment in my career. And again, it was all because of networking with some guy that, you know, I didn't know.

00:50:15 - Jay Dash

It wasn't who I was there for, it wasn't who I was there with. It was somebody I was talking to. We made that over years, not knowing this is how this person is going to help me, this is what this person is going to do for me. It's really just, hey, man, what are you passionate about? How can we connect? Do we connect on anything? How do we stay in touch? And actually following up, and then, you know, seeing that relationship pay off really is just an investment. Definitely agree with all that.

00:50:53 - Anthony Campolo

Looks like we got Dev in the club.

00:50:55 - Scott Steinlage

There we go.

00:50:56 - Anthony Campolo

He wants to come up.

00:50:58 - Scott Steinlage

I think it was muted. I was just saying that. Yeah, that is an incredible story. And I really love stories like that. It tells the underlying truth of how much building and just being authentic, being you, being real, and just continuing to build relationships with people, what it can do. I mean, it's just miraculous. I'll tell you this, guys, as well, just kind of to go off of that a minute, and then we can... You said somebody was in the audience we'll bring up. But pretty much every job I've had, I think, yeah, pretty much, has been because of building relationships with people and networking. It's not because I went through the resume process, that's for sure. I did not submit a resume and then get randomly picked out of five million resumes to have an interview. It was, I knew somebody who knew somebody, or I knew that person because I built a relationship with them, or something like that. So even any business ventures I've done in the past, same thing. Yep. It's all about the networking.

00:52:13 - Scott Steinlage

It's a powerful thing. And that's the thing that's gonna set you apart in this crazy world right now where 10% of your company gets laid off, you know, and that's 10,000 people or 100 people, whatever, and you're all looking for jobs. That's the thing that's gonna set you apart. Taylor would agree with me, if he was still on here, is you going and building those relationships and making it happen, you know. Then you get the interview, right? It may not happen right away, right? But maybe within a few weeks, maybe a month, I don't know. Or maybe it's not even that job, and they know somebody else, you know? Like, it's crazy. Just like JD, as we're saying, he didn't know, right? It was totally unrelated to what he was doing, so...

00:52:56 - Anthony Campolo

All right, we got a Dev up here. What's up, Dev?

00:53:05 - Jay Dash

Late.

00:53:05 - Dev Agrawal

Hope you guys are enjoying Atlanta. We are just on our way to our hotel.

00:53:11 - Anthony Campolo

Cool. I was curious to get your perspective. Is this your first conference now that you have a job?

00:53:20 - Dev Agrawal

In a sense? I don't know, because I also started my Clerk job one day before Reactathon.

00:53:26 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah.

00:53:28 - Scott Steinlage

Okay.

00:53:28 - Anthony Campolo

I think kind of. So how do you think about your role now, going to a conference now you actually have a job?

00:53:38 - Dev Agrawal

I definitely think about my role quite a bit more, and it impacts... I guess it makes me think a lot more about who else is at the conference, who can I talk to, who can I invite to dinner, etc.

00:53:56 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah. Because this is the thing where I've gone to conferences that I paid my own way, and I've gone to conferences that my work paid for, and I've done that across two separate jobs now. And sometimes I kind of psych myself out. Like, I feel like I need to get the ROI or else I'm wasting the company's money. But I feel like, you know, you just got to be there and just vibe, you know, just [unclear].

00:54:20 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah.

00:54:20 - Dev Agrawal

One of the biggest switches has definitely been, instead of looking for who can pay for my dinner...

00:54:38 - Anthony Campolo

Hello? You cut out there, Dev. You muted yourself.

00:54:45 - Ishan Anand

Yeah, we couldn't hear you.

00:54:48 - Dev Agrawal

I was saying that the biggest switch has been instead of looking for people who can pay for my dinner, I'm looking for people whose dinner I can pay for.

00:54:58 - Anthony Campolo

That's funny.

00:54:59 - Jay Dash

Yeah, I know.

00:55:00 - Anthony Campolo

You got the company purse if you

00:55:02 - Scott Steinlage

want to buy me dinner. All right. I'm down.

00:55:06 - Dev Agrawal

Yeah, I'll be in your DMs.

00:55:08 - Scott Steinlage

Only kidding. Yeah. All right, brother. You don't have to do that. I was only kidding.

00:55:14 - Anthony Campolo

Now you buy our dinner, we'll get you on a podcast. That's how it goes.

00:55:19 - Scott Steinlage

Oh, nice. I like the perks.

00:55:23 - Anthony Campolo

Dev's on deck to be someone who will most likely record podcasts with us, so stay tuned.

00:55:29 - Scott Steinlage

True. Yeah, man, we'll do some awesome podcasts. I got at least four people lined up to do podcast recordings while we're here, so we're gonna stay busy. It's gonna be fun. That room's gonna be lit for sure. Will knows. Will knows. Will will probably just come up and hang out with us just because he wants to be in the room, I mean.

00:55:52 - Will

Yeah, exactly. That was my thought.

00:55:58 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. Awesome, brother. Actually... Go ahead. Huh? Go ahead.

00:56:06 - Will

Oh, I was saying, I was thinking, like, I'm planning on taking some bootcamp students that just graduated to the soccer game tonight. So I don't know, maybe after that I'll come say what's up.

00:56:22 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, man, I think I'm going to that dinner, that VIP thing tonight. It starts at 8 and, you know, to mingle and all that. But we'll have to figure something out. I think it'll be good for sure.

00:56:37 - Will

Yeah. Yeah, we got three days. We'll figure something out.

00:56:42 - Scott Steinlage

Absolutely. All right, well, I just want to say if you're just now joining us, thank you so much. Or if you've been sitting here for a minute listening in, we're here live at Render ATL. We've got some of the speakers here and also some of the hosts that were here as well. We've had people jumping in and out. It's been really fun, even some of the attendees, along with myself as well. So I just want to say thank you so much to everybody joining us here. It's been a blast. Every time we do JavaScript Jam Live, I'm just so excited to be able to speak with some people and just have some good collaborative communication and just, you know, build relationships together, right? Even though this is a digital footprint, and we're all talking about how physical is the dominant and best thing to do, at least we have this opportunity to be able to do this together, right? Which then therefore can lead to more in-person development as the future goes on, so long as you're trying to get out there and meet some folks.

00:57:46 - Scott Steinlage

Right. So just like Jay Dash and I, you know, we've seen each other twice now. Once at Render last year, and now at Render this year. And, you know, we did our digital summit. We had a virtual summit that we did, and he was one of the speakers on that last summer as well. So anyway, we've kept talking and communicating, and we were pumped that we were both going. So here we are talking again. So it's good. But yeah, if you're here at Render, please find us. We would love to just say hi, snap a picture. I love taking pictures, so I will. I've been taking lots of slow-mo clips too. So I'm gonna put together some freaking lit videos and stuff after this. It's gonna be fun, especially with that room I got. I just had to take some super dope shots. But anyway... But yeah, I'm just really excited with everything that's happening here and can't wait to meet more of you guys and continue this conversation. So with that being said, if you're a beginning developer or whether you've been...

00:59:04 - Scott Steinlage

You're an advanced developer, you've been doing this for a long time. It doesn't matter. We want to hear from everybody. Okay? So now's your chance. Click on the button there to request to come up. We'll bring you up here and you can ask away any questions you want. You can state facts, questions, comments, whatever. It doesn't matter. Opinions... so long as you partake [unclear]. Yeah, you could be ChatGPT and be like, hey, you know, this is true. Like, really? I mean it, man. That thing can lie. Like, it's so amazing how confident... Very confident, yeah, for sure. But anyway, yeah...

00:59:46 - Anthony Campolo

How about St. Louis Airport? Wonderful and empty.

00:59:51 - Scott Steinlage

Always wonderful and empty. Yeah, it's definitely one of the less busy airports compared to, like, Atlanta. Holy cow, Atlanta's...

00:59:59 - Anthony Campolo

It takes me literally 60 seconds to get through security.

01:00:05 - Scott Steinlage

Well, hey, okay, you have TSA PreCheck. Don't lie to everybody. Come on.

01:00:09 - Anthony Campolo

But anyone who's messing up.

01:00:14 - Scott Steinlage

When I went through, literally, I was like, I went through TSA Pre and there were like three people in the normal line. So I just butted three people. It was the stupidest thing, but I did anyway. So yeah, it's the only game.

01:00:29 - Anthony Campolo

You don't need to take your shoes off. That's the real... Even if it takes just as much time, you get to keep your shoes on. Worth it.

01:00:36 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, man. Now they got your fingerprints in your face and everything. Oh, well.

01:00:42 - Ishan Anand

Well, you know Brandon Flybear flew in.

01:00:48 - Anthony Campolo

Literally flew in.

01:00:50 - Scott Steinlage

Literally flew in.

01:00:52 - Ishan Anand

I'm watching the... I saw the tweets of everybody. He offered to take people up in his plane, and there's a bunch...

01:00:57 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, he offered me and I was like, no, I don't think I could do it, like, because he does aerobatics and stuff.

01:01:05 - Anthony Campolo

Like, he wants the Day the Music Died.

01:01:07 - Scott Steinlage

But tech version, he'll be taking you upside down, spinning it around, and it's like a very small cockpit. Especially... There's only two seats. There's the front seat and the back seat. And you're not side by side. You're behind him. So, like, you can't see his face, how he's reacting. Did he pass out? Are you gonna die in two seconds? I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yeah, no, I don't think I could do it. Like, I've flown in a small plane. I even flew a small Cessna 172, but it's totally different. I don't know. Anyway, I had the controls in front of me, you know. Oh, wow.

01:01:44 - Ishan Anand

Okay.

01:01:48 - Scott Steinlage

What was that? Too much of a rant. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no.

01:01:52 - Ishan Anand

I probably, you know, once we had a company I worked for, had a company event that was race cars, and I actually bowed out just because I'm like, yeah, I don't wanna... I don't know. So I can empathize, but it certainly looks...

01:02:11 - Scott Steinlage

Now, race car, on the other hand, I would do that all day. So yeah, yeah, I feel you, man. All right, so, yeah, I don't know. We want to keep going here or what do you all want to do? We're at the top of the hour, bottom of the hour, whatever you want to call it. Some hour.

01:02:26 - Anthony Campolo

I mean, do any other speakers up here want to bring up any topics, things they're excited about, anything they want to speak about? I say otherwise we probably close out.

01:02:36 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. Or anybody in the audience, feel free to come up. As we said, we'd love to hear from you.

01:02:41 - Anthony Campolo

Oh, I think we just got a request.

01:02:43 - Scott Steinlage

Oh.

01:02:43 - Anthony Campolo

Let's make sure this is a real person. Questionable. Questionable. I like clothes and versus code. Oh, no, I don't know about this one.

01:02:58 - Scott Steinlage

All right, let them talk. We'll see what happens. What's up? All right.

01:03:06 - Anthony Campolo

He's from Atlanta, Georgia. At least. There you go.

01:03:11 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, we got him in there.

01:03:13 - Speaker 9

Hi, guys.

01:03:14 - Speaker 9

I'm a recent college grad.

01:03:17 - Speaker 9

I got an IT degree.

01:03:18 - Speaker 9

I was wondering, for events like these, would you guys recommend recent college grads even pay attention to these type of events? Stick to more hackathons?

01:03:29 - Anthony Campolo

That's a great question, actually.

01:03:32 - Scott Steinlage

I would say yes. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes. The reason why, number one, recent college grad... Okay, maybe you don't have all this experience under your belt, whatever, yada yada, but I mean, as long as you feel confident in your abilities.

01:03:54 - Taylor Desseyn

Are you currently.

01:03:54 - Anthony Campolo

Are you currently looking for a job?

01:03:57 - Speaker 9

Yeah, I actually have a job offer from someplace called Revature. I don't know if you guys have heard of that. It's usually referred to as a scam camp based on their, like, predatory practices when hiring with contracts and such. But other than that, I haven't had many job offers. I just recently graduated. I'm still putting my foot out there.

01:04:19 - Anthony Campolo

Are they an income share agreement?

01:04:22 - Jay Dash

I'm not really sure.

01:04:23 - Speaker 9

It's more of like a contracting thing. You do unpaid training for a certain period of time, and then you're contracted and you get put on a bench if projects aren't available and those type of things.

01:04:34 - Anthony Campolo

Interesting. Yeah. I did an income share agreement, which also gets accused of being, quote, unquote, predatory.

01:04:40 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah.

01:04:41 - Anthony Campolo

And I found that it wasn't as bad as people made it out to be. But obviously I don't know anything about this company, so I can't really speak to it.

01:04:50 - Speaker 9

Yeah, the main reason I'm even taking the offer is just to get my foot in the door, so whatever.

01:04:56 - Anthony Campolo

I mean, I would say if you're looking for a job, this is a good place to be. We had Taylor up here earlier saying that he feels like there should be more recruiters at events like this.

01:05:05 - Speaker 9

Right.

01:05:06 - Anthony Campolo

So say, like, do you have an idea of even companies you could talk to or people you kind of followed online? Like, I would say have some sort of list of people you want to meet, things you want to do, companies you want to talk to, so you can make sure you're making the best out of it.

01:05:22 - Speaker 9

That's a good idea. Yeah, I mean, I just mainly follow tech influencers. I mean, Dev Agrawal is one of the people I followed. That's how I even saw this.

01:05:35 - Anthony Campolo

Awesome.

01:05:36 - Speaker 9

Yeah, so I really don't follow companies. I more follow people like Rich Harris and stuff like that, you know?

01:05:43 - Anthony Campolo

Well, hey, man, if you want to meet up, we'd be happy to chat for sure.

01:05:47 - Speaker 9

Sounds good.

01:05:48 - Scott Steinlage

Hey, there is like a job expo thing here tomorrow, I think. Actually Jay Dash just said something about it, so just...

01:05:58 - Speaker 9

Well, thank you guys for letting me speak.

01:06:01 - Scott Steinlage

Appreciate it. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Pleasure to have you. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, Dev is a great example, though, of getting involved in community and building relationships with people and putting himself out there in the digital world while still in college. And then literally the day he graduated, or something like that, or I don't know, you can correct me on that.

01:06:31 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah, he had a job even before he graduated, right?

01:06:34 - Scott Steinlage

He had it. He just.

01:06:35 - Anthony Campolo

He didn't coast.

01:06:39 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, so he had a job right out the door. And this was just a couple weeks ago, so...

01:06:47 - Ishan Anand

I feel like we've come completely full circle. That's like all the themes we've talked about. Content creation, networking, in person, conferences...

01:06:58 - Jay Dash

all,

01:06:59 - Ishan Anand

all at the end.

01:07:03 - Anthony Campolo

Nice bow on top of that sucker.

01:07:10 - Scott Steinlage

Yes. And he did say sucker with an S, in case you were wondering. Yeah, put a nice bow on that guy and call it good. All right, so anything else? I think that's about it, y'all.

01:07:25 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah, that probably is good.

01:07:28 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. So thank you all so much for joining us. Greatly appreciate everybody here. If you got value from anybody that was on stage here, please click on their face, follow them. Because I guarantee if you got value from them here, you're gonna get value from them in other places. And that's the initiation of doing what we've just been talking about this whole time. Connecting, communicating, continuing to build relationships. Okay. Make it happen. All right. And hey, you know what? If you're not following JavaScript Jam, you want to give us a follow, please do. Because we do this every Wednesday, 12pm Pacific Standard Time. And if you don't have our newsletter yet, you need to go do that. Go to javascriptjam.com, sign up, get our newsletter. Because we have wonderful Anthony here doing all the behind-the-scenes work on that. Yeah, and, you know, he writes up some really cool things about what's happening in the JavaScript world and just web dev in general.

01:08:21 - Anthony Campolo

So 90% React Server Components recently, basically...

01:08:26 - Scott Steinlage

all React server components.

01:08:28 - Anthony Campolo

There's one point where I literally just say, how many times can I say React server components in one newsletter? Wait, one more time. All caps. React server components.

01:08:38 - Scott Steinlage

Yes, React Server Components. What? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, be sure to do that if you're not already. And that way you'll be notified as well. Like, hey, what are they gonna be talking about? Well, it's probably on the newsletter, y'all. All right. It's free, by the way. No charge there. All right, javascriptjam.com, sign up right now. Okay, now that you've done that, thank you so much for doing that. 500 of you are signing up. Oh, my gosh. No, I'm kidding. Thanks for signing up, though.

01:09:12 - Anthony Campolo

Hey, we're about halfway there.

01:09:14 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, we are about halfway there and I'm super excited. Hey, look at that. Hey, I just got someone to come up and take a selfie with me and it's our dear friend Nate. What's your last name, bro? Yeah, Nate Emerson. Nate Emerson's right here hanging out. He's in the audience too, listening in. You want to come up here and say something, dude? You having a fun time at the conference? Yeah, maybe. Maybe here, I'll send the invite.

01:09:43 - Anthony Campolo

You know, we got Dev back up here.

01:09:47 - Scott Steinlage

Just looks like, yeah, right? Dev's like, yes. Let's see if Nate jumps up here or not.

01:10:00 - Nate Emerson

Oh, I'm having a fantastic time. So good to see you guys. I just saw Scott.

01:10:04 - Taylor Desseyn

I was like, he looks real familiar.

01:10:06 - Nate Emerson

And he's recording on a Twitter Space, but yeah, so good to see everybody. I am going to be speaking at 9am tomorrow. I got put on as a last-minute speaker, so...

01:10:16 - Anthony Campolo

For real?

01:10:17 - Taylor Desseyn

Yeah.

01:10:17 - Anthony Campolo

Dude, what's up? Awesome.

01:10:20 - Nate Emerson

I got a speaker orientation I'm heading to in a minute here and then I'm gonna be going home to finish my slides for the night, so... pretty stoked.

01:10:30 - Scott Steinlage

That's awesome. Congratulations, man. That's so cool.

01:10:37 - Ishan Anand

What's your topic on? And congrats.

01:10:40 - Nate Emerson

I am going to be speaking on cultivating confidence. How we instill confidence in ourselves and

01:10:46 - Taylor Desseyn

those that we work with.

01:10:49 - Ishan Anand

Very cool. Nothing like building the slides the night before. Never been there.

01:10:55 - Nate Emerson

Right, right.

01:10:56 - Anthony Campolo

Well, that's how you build confidence.

01:10:58 - Nate Emerson

Exactly. I'm going to start off with, by the end of this talk, y'all are going to know if any of what I'm saying works. Because I just found out I'm giving this talk yesterday. So if I come off as confident, then something's working.

01:11:14 - Scott Steinlage

True, true. That's awesome, man. Well, I love your confidence. I've been watching you out here, just kind of doing your rounds a little bit out and chatting, and you've been having the confidence to go and meet and talk to a bunch of people, take a bunch of pictures, hang out. I love that and I'm so glad you came over and said hello, so thanks for that, brother, and wish you the best on your slides, and I'm sure they'll turn out amazing. So... cool. All right, y'all, well, I think that's going to wrap it up, but we probably could sit here for a few hours and just have random speakers walk up, you know? But I do need to get going and get some food and get ready for later. But I'm really, really excited for everything. Love y'...

01:12:07 - Jay Dash

All.

01:12:07 - Scott Steinlage

Thank you so much for showing up. Oh, Chrissy Codes is in the audience here, too. Chrissy, aren't you speaking as well? I don't know. What's up, Will?

01:12:18 - Will

Where are you at, by the way?

01:12:21 - Scott Steinlage

I am located in front of the registration at the... for the...

01:12:28 - Will

Where the workshops are.

01:12:29 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, where the workshops are. Yeah, yeah.

01:12:31 - Will

All right.

01:12:31 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, so if you go up on the seventh floor, I'm right there. I'm probably gonna be packing this stuff up when you walk over, but yeah.

01:12:40 - Taylor Desseyn

Cool.

01:12:41 - Scott Steinlage

Come on over, though. All right, awesome. All right, y'all.

01:12:44 - Ishan Anand

All.

01:12:45 - Scott Steinlage

See, listen, y'all, you don't want to miss this. I know you tell me you got FOMO who didn't get to make it. I'm sorry that you didn't get to make it. But, you know, like, B. Dougie, he's not coming this year. Did you see that? Can you put it on Twitter? Oh, no. What the heck, bro? B. Dougie, if you listen to this, which I don't think you will, but if you listen to this, bro, gonna have some FOMO.

01:13:10 - Anthony Campolo

Somebody.

01:13:13 - Scott Steinlage

Some mo' FOMO. That's crazy. That's back... What? No. Okay. It's not backwards. That'd be O... That'd be O FOMO? Oh, Anthony. Oh, my gosh. Can't wait to see you.

01:13:30 - Anthony Campolo

I'm in St. Louis Airport. I cannot not have a good time.

01:13:35 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, for sure. Did you eat at Mike... Mike, Mike, whatever.

01:13:41 - Anthony Campolo

Of course I did. I got some of that Mac and cheese with that bacon and an espresso martini.

01:13:47 - Scott Steinlage

Nice. I ate there when I left, and I had their Cajun pasta. It was actually really good, but yeah.

01:13:58 - Anthony Campolo

What's up? Best airport in the world.

01:14:01 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Go Cardinals. All right, if you see me in the Cardinals jersey, come say hello. Okay. And it's the away jersey, so it's gray with the Cardinals logo on it because I'm away from home. Get it? See what I did there? All right, y'all.

01:14:25 - Taylor Desseyn

All.

01:14:27 - Scott Steinlage

Cool. All right, y'all. Love y'all. Thank you so much. And don't forget to show up next week for JavaScript Jam Live.

01:14:38 - Anthony Campolo

Or allegedly tomorrow.

01:14:39 - Scott Steinlage

Or allegedly in the next day or two. Yeah, exactly. Maybe we'll go live from the hotel room. That would be fun. Get everybody's expression of, like, how crazy the hotel room is. I might even do, like, some video recording of it, too. Just, you know, it'd be cool. Maybe stream it live. All right, y'all, thank you so much, and we'll see you. Chrissy, are you sure you don't want to come up here and say something? I see you in the audience there, maybe. Are you here at Render? No. All right, anybody else? Anybody else? I see someone else, Lifelong Dev, there. What's up, man? Oh, yeah, I think you're a speaker, too. Yeah.

01:15:26 - Anthony Campolo

Oh, yeah.

01:15:27 - Scott Steinlage

Okay.

01:15:27 - Anthony Campolo

Yeah, yeah. No, no.

01:15:28 - Scott Steinlage

Yeah, yeah. No, no. Yeah. Okay.

01:15:37 - Anthony Campolo

All right, I think we're gonna catch you all on the next one.

01:15:43 - Scott Steinlage

Cool.

01:15:43 - Dev Agrawal

See you guys at Render for some of you.

01:15:45 - Scott Steinlage

All right, I'll see you. We'll see you in the next one. Oh, y'all. Love you. Peace.